AC

I don't get it.

我看不懂。

by using AC (or a fridge, or heat pumps in general), you are moving heat from one point (inside your house) to another (outside). why not use that heat to, say, heat water for your shower? why are these systems not integrated? I mean, in many places kitchens are usually put adjacent to bathrooms to make plumbing cheaper, so might as well use the heat from your fridge to get hot water. just have detachable insulation or some shit in the hot water tank as much as possible to avoid heat leaking into your house during summer while taking advantage of it during winter.

用空调（或者冰箱，或者一般的热泵）的时候，你只是在把热量从一个地方（屋里）搬到另一个地方（外面）。为啥不用那个热量去加热洗澡水呢？为啥这些系统不能整合起来？我是说，很多地方厨房通常都挨着浴室，这样管道更便宜，那还不如用冰箱的热量来出热水。反正就在热水箱上装个可拆卸的保温层之类的东西，夏天避免热量漏进屋里，冬天还能利用上。

and if people care so much about the environment, then why not use it to heat water to generate vapor instead of just heating air?

而且如果大家真这么在乎环境，那为啥不拿它去加热水产生蒸汽，而不是只加热空气？

inb4

>noo this doesn't belong here! only computer software is technology!

>不行不行，这玩意儿不属于这儿！只有电脑软件才算技术！

it is. plus a lot of control tech could be used to manage heat in these systems.

它确实是。而且很多控制技术本来就能用来管理这些系统的热量。

pic unrelated

图片与主题无关

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1785607491192397.png

Your fridge doesn't hold enough thermal energy to heat up your shower.

你冰箱存的那点热能根本不够加热洗澡水。

>>109429641

they already do this you illiterate nigger. LG sells them

人家早就这么干了你这个文盲黑鬼。LG就有卖的。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1785607831024450.jpg

>>109429683

that's for large buildings, right? can you post examples? I bet there is nothing for small houses.

那是针对大型建筑的，对吧？你能发几个例子吗？我赌根本没有适合小房子的。

>>109429679

it still could be used as the first stage for a water heating system. plus water temperature is lower than surrounding air during summer, which I guess would help save some energy.

但它还是可以用来当热水系统的第一级预热啊。而且夏天水温比周围空气低，我猜这多少能省点能量。

>>109429641

deny, disrupt, delay, deceive, discredit, distrust, dissuade, deter, denigrate, degrade

否认、捣乱、拖延、欺骗、抹黑、怀疑、劝阻、威慑、诋毁、降级

are they just collecting words that start with d

他们是不是就光收集D开头的词啊

>>109429789

You would just be quadrupling your failure points for virtually no benefit. Better off working on tesla coils/towers so we can just skip over the bullshit power sources we use now.

你这就只是把故障点翻了四倍，几乎没啥好处。还不如去搞特斯拉线圈/高塔，这样就能直接跳过现在这些破电源了。

how much heat energy is generated by a fridge

一台冰箱能产生多少热能？

how much heat energy is needed for a shower

洗一次澡需要多少热能？

they actually do use heat pumps for central heating in some houses and it is naff

其实有些房子确实用热泵做中央供暖，但那玩意儿很拉胯。

>>109429641

>why are these systems not integrated

>为啥这些系统不能整合

Because the complexity they introduce is just too much. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. If you actually sat down and started doing math on what costs what month to month you'd realize this very fast. Especially in the likes of a freestanding single-family home.

因为它们带来的复杂度太高了。得不偿失。你要是真坐下来算算每个月各种东西花多少钱，你很快就会发现这点。尤其是那种独栋独立住宅。

>>109430229

>>109430050

I guess you guys are right, attaching the radiator to a water line and adding a pump is too complicated

我猜你们说得对，把散热器接到水管上再装个泵，这实在太复杂了。

oh, well.

哎，行吧。

>>109430110

>One 8-10 minute shower: about 2–3 kWh of heat.

>一次8到10分钟的淋浴：大约需要2到3千瓦时的热量。

>A refrigerator: releases about 2–4 kWh of heat over an entire day.

>一台冰箱：一整天大约释放2到4千瓦时的热量。

free shower every 2 days

每两天就免费洗一次澡。

>>109429641

You can do this if you get a heat pump boiler (so a boiler with a small heat pump on top, in the US you call them heat pump water heater, Rheem is the main brand).

你要是装个热泵热水器就能这么干（就是个顶部带小热泵的热水器，美国那边叫热泵热水器，Rheem 是主要牌子）。

In the winter connect the air hoses in the standard way, in the summer just leave them open. It will do a bit of free AC.

冬天把气管按常规方式接上，夏天就让它敞着。这样能顺带搞点免费空调。

>>109430849

Except you need the heat at a specific time and doled only up to a specific amount, so the useful energy added by a fridge would only be a fraction of what you consume.

只不过你需要在特定时间要热，而且只能按特定量供给，所以冰箱能加的有用能量只会是你消耗的一小部分。

BONUS: it makes the fridge less efficient at dumping heat, thus requiring everything to be overbuilt.

额外福利：它会让冰箱散热效率变差，逼着你把一切都往大了造。

DOUBLE BONUS: Every water fitting can break and flood your house.

双倍福利：每个水管接头都可能爆掉，然后把你家淹了。

>>109431055

retard. 90% of the planet uses heated water tanks. you think they just heat up water on demand?

脑残。全球90%的人都在用热水储罐。你以为他们是现用现烧吗？

might be hard for you to comprehend as your brazilian suicide electric showers are the only thing you've ever seen

你理解不了也正常，毕竟你巴西那种自杀式电淋浴是你这辈子见过唯一的东西。

dumbass

Why don't you use your refrigerator to cook your food and your space heater as an ice-maker?

你咋不用冰箱来做饭，再用暖气当制冰机呢？

>>109431114

Yeah dude that's actually how they work. You start draining water out of the tank, could water comes in, and the thermostat kicks the heater on. It doesn't just up instantly, but more power is only wanted at very specific times.

对啊兄弟，那玩意儿原理就是这样。你开始从罐里放水，冷水进来，温控器就启动加热。它不会瞬间升温，但额外功率只在特定时候才需要。

>>109429641

The most exciting and "real" outrageous answer here is that corporation has lobbied for their own interests. Though the amount of cuck we citizen get various a lot from country to country. Think building codes (use of adobe in US f.ex), trade deals( DMCA and anti-circumvention), politicians leaning on corporate entities to instigate "real" change (very typical of EU). This answer more of why we generally don't see more innovation though.

这里最劲爆也是最“真实”的离谱答案是，企业一直在为自己的利益游说。虽然咱们普通人被坑的程度各国差异很大。想想建筑规范（比如美国用土坯的例子）、贸易协议（DMCA和反规避条款）、政客施加压力逼企业去推动“真正的”变革（欧盟那边特别典型）。这更多解释的是为啥我们总体上看不到更多创新。

Another thing is that retrofitting old buildings can be, on the whole (societal) be much more effort than just applying a template building 100 housing complexes. Here there are plenty reasons why houses aren't smart, the biggest one being that microcontrollers and accessibility of "at-home-automation" was harder out of reach not so long ago. You also got to factor in ROI on these very minor solution, which ofte only makes sense if you're doing it DYI for the fun of it or you're a prepper. Large parts of the west live in a cold environment, where heat releasing into the ambient temp of the house is what you want, which shrinks the ROI even more. Integrated solutions makes more sense for extreme environments.

另一个原因是，改造旧建筑整体上（社会层面）可能比套个模板建100个住宅区费劲多了。这里有很多理由解释为啥房子不智能，最大一个是微控制器和“家庭自动化”的可及性在不久之前还很难够到。你还得算这些非常小的方案的回报率，这通常只有你自己DIY图个乐子或者你是末日准备者才划算。西方大部分地区住得冷，热量散发到屋子环境温度里正是你想要的，这更把回报率压低了。一体化方案在极端环境下才更有意义。

What you talk about actually happens in poorer countries, where the ROI is there. Eastern european countries tend to be very entrepreneurial. Polyculture is very big in Southeast Asia. The reason why we are talking about it now is because wealth made us brainlets. You're right though, we should be doing it. If you go back and see how family farms or houses were run, it was basically run like a business and the mindset very different. I think DYI smart houses is making a comeback though, as we get poorer and struggle finding a job in the west. Depends how bad politicians cuck us on the legal stuff.

你说的这事儿其实在穷国真发生了，那儿回报率是实打实的。东欧国家普遍很有创业劲头。东南亚那边混养混种特别流行。我们现在聊这话题是因为富起来让我们变蠢了。你说得对，我们确实该这么干。回去看看家庭农场或老宅怎么运营的，基本就是当生意来打理，心态完全不一样。我觉得随着我们在西方变穷、找工作难，DIY智能家居要回潮了。就看政客在法律层面坑我们多狠了。

>>109429641

this technology is known as heat recovery and it is used in some larger commercial refrigeration systems (like at a grocery store or dairy). a similar system is used in buildings' HVAC systems

这种技术叫做热回收，在一些大型商用制冷系统（比如杂货店或乳品厂）里会用。类似的系统也用在大楼的暖通空调里。

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_recovery_ventilation

if you search for "heat recovery refrigeration" and similar terms you can find more information. bringing this technology to the level you are talking about is a current engineering research topic.

如果你搜“heat recovery refrigeration”之类的词，能找到更多资料。把这技术做到你说的那个层级，是眼下工程研究的一个课题。

>>109429641

>why not use that heat to, say, heat water for your shower?

>为啥不用那热量来，比如说，加热淋浴水？

you can but the amout of heat you're moving from the air in your room is very very miniscule compared to the amount of heat required to heat up your shower water.

可以啊，但你能从房间里空气里搬走的热量，跟加热淋浴水需要的热量比起来，简直少得可怜。

you could hypothetically put the AC heat exchanger inside the shower hot water tank or put the fridge heat there the main reason its not done is its just complicated. its simpler to build fridges as one block that dumps the heat in the room it's in and the AC as just two boxes with a pipe between them where the inside box pumps hot coolant to the outside box and gets cold coolant back.

你理论上可以把空调的换热器塞进淋浴热水箱里，或者把冰箱的热量也放那儿，但主要没这么做是因为太复杂了。冰箱做成一个整体、把热直接排到所在房间，空调做成两个盒子中间一根管子、里面盒子把热冷却液送到外面盒子再拿冷回来，这样简单多了。

>>109431213

what about an ac that turns you into a jeetshitter

那有没有一种空调能把你变成喷屎狂魔？

opinions/ideas? bro?

意见/想法？老哥？