Ukrainian Defence Minister Calls for Election

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdew8n9erlwo

Ukraine's popular ex-defence minister Mykhailo Fedorov has called for wartime elections, in what is widely seen as the biggest challenge to Volodymyr Zelensky's presidency since Russia's full-scale invasion four and a half years ago.

乌克兰受欢迎的前国防部长米哈伊洛·费多罗夫呼吁举行战时选举，这被广泛认为是自四年半前俄罗斯全面入侵以来对弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基总统任期的最大挑战。

"Democracy cannot be held hostage by Russia," said Fedorov, 35, in a video posted to YouTube on Tuesday, adding that Ukraine is fighting "precisely because we want to remain a free European state".

35 岁的费多罗夫周二在 YouTube 上发布的一段视频中表示，“民主不能被俄罗斯扣为人质”，并补充说乌克兰正在战斗“正是因为我们想继续成为一个自由的欧洲国家”。

Since the war broke out in 2022 Ukraine has been under martial law, meaning elections are suspended.

自 2022 年战争爆发以来，乌克兰一直处于戒严状态，这意味着选举被暂停。

Fedorov, who did not mention Zelensky by name in the video, was unexpectedly fired from his role as defence minister last month, just six months after his appointment.

费多罗夫在视频中没有提到泽连斯基的名字，上个月他出人意料地被解除了国防部长职务，而此时距离他被任命仅六个月。

Zelensky has not directly responded to the video from Fedorov, whose dismissal sparked protests across the country.

泽伦斯基没有直接回应费多罗夫的视频，费多罗夫的解雇引发了全国各地的抗议。

But in his own video message late on Wednesday, the Ukrainian president mentioned the tasks the newly-confirmed Defence Minister Yevhenii Khmara faced, including defending against deadly Russian aerial attacks and expanding Ukraine's "deep-strike capabilities" inside Russia.

但在周三晚些时候的视频讲话中，乌克兰总统提到了新任命的国防部长叶夫赫尼·赫马拉面临的任务，包括防御俄罗斯致命的空袭以及扩大乌克兰在俄罗斯境内的“深度打击能力”。

Meanwhile, a source in the presidential office told the BBC it was "highly bizarre to plan elections amidst missiles and drones. This demonstrates a complete lack of realism".

与此同时，青瓦台的一位消息人士告诉英国广播公司，“在导弹和无人机中计划选举是非常奇怪的。这表明完全缺乏现实主义”。

A number of Ukrainian analysts have also questioned whether it would be possible to properly organise the voting for millions of Ukrainians who have fled the country and also hundreds of thousands of soldiers on the front line.

一些乌克兰分析人士还质疑是否有可能为数百万逃离该国的乌克兰人和数十万前线士兵组织投票。

Zelensky - whose five-year presidential term ended in May 2024 - has been under pressure from both Washington and Moscow to hold new elections.

泽伦斯基的五年总统任期于 2024 年 5 月结束，他一直面临华盛顿和莫斯科举行新选举的压力。

When US President Donald Trump suggested last year that Kyiv was "using war" to avoid a vote, Zelensky said Ukraine was "ready for elections" within 60-90 days if its allies helped guarantee security for them.

当美国总统唐纳德·特朗普去年暗示基辅正在“利用战争”来避免投票时，泽伦斯基表示，如果其盟友帮助保障乌克兰的安全，乌克兰将在 60 至 90 天内“做好选举准备”。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/news/1787175042141772.png

>>1530952

Holding a fair and safe vote would present considerable challenges for a country under repeated Russian bombardment and many Ukrainians saw Trump's remarks as reflecting Vladimir Putin's narrative that Zelensky is not a legitimate leader.

对于一个遭受俄罗斯多次轰炸的国家来说，举行公平和安全的投票将带来相当大的挑战，许多乌克兰人认为特朗普的言论反映了弗拉基米尔·普京的说法，即泽连斯基不是合法领导人。

In the latest Russian attacks on Wednesday, four people were killed when a drone hit a minibus in the southern city of Kherson. Buses and minibuses in Kherson have been repeatedly targeted in recent months, killing drivers and passengers alike.

在周三的最新俄罗斯袭击中，一架无人机在南部城市赫尔松撞上了一辆小巴，造成四人死亡。近几个月来，赫尔松的公共汽车和小巴多次成为攻击目标，造成司机和乘客死亡。

In the central city of Zhytomyr, two police officers were killed and another 20 people injured in a Russian drone strike on the regional police headquarters, a local official said.

当地官员称，在中部城市日托米尔，俄罗斯无人机袭击了地区警察总部，造成两名警察死亡，另有 20 人受伤。

In a separate development, Ukraine's two anti-corruption agencies said they were conducting a special operation targeting current and former MPs as well as an unnamed official in the presidential office.

另据报道，乌克兰两个反腐败机构表示，他们正在针对现任和前任国会议员以及总统办公室一名未透露姓名的官员开展特别行动。

Hours later, Zelensky's office said its deputy head Iryna Mudra had been dismissed, amid local media reports of a raid on her premises.

几小时后，泽连斯基办公室表示，副主任伊琳娜·穆德拉已被解雇，当地媒体报道称她的办公场所遭到突击搜查。

There was no immediate comment from Mudra, although MP Vadym Stolar, whose home was searched as part of the operation, said he was co-operating with anti-corruption officials.

马德拉没有立即发表评论，但在这次行动中，其家被搜查的议员瓦迪姆·斯托拉尔表示，他正在与反腐败官员合作。

In his video, Fedorov complained that corruption was depriving the military of weapons and equipment and making it harder for Kyiv to win the war. He spoke of Ukraine facing a "systemic crisis of governance" and being "scared of change".

费多罗夫在视频中抱怨腐败剥夺了军队的武器和装备，使基辅更难赢得战争。他谈到乌克兰面临“系统性治理危机”并“害怕变革”。

About 100 protesters gathered outside the Ukrainian parliament on Wednesday morning, chanting "bring back Fedorov as minister of defence" and "we are fed up, we want dialogue".

周三上午，大约100名抗议者聚集在乌克兰议会外，高呼“让费多罗夫重新担任国防部长”和“我们受够了，我们希望对话”。

Fedorov is a charismatic politician, and during his tenure as defence minister, he was credited with energising the ministry, heading a drive against corruption, challenging outdated military structures and transforming the battlefield with new technology.

费多罗夫是一位富有魅力的政治家，在担任国防部长期间，他因激励国防部长、领导反腐败运动、挑战过时的军事结构以及利用新技术改变战场而受到赞誉。

>>1530953

His dismissal in mid-July is believed to have resulted from tensions between him and army commander-in-chief, Oleksandr Syrskyi.

据信，他于 7 月中旬被解职，原因是他与陆军总司令亚历山大·西尔斯基 (Oleksandr Syrskyi) 之间关系紧张。

Within days Syrskyi was also replaced, as mounting protests calling for Fedorov's reinstatement piled pressure on the Ukrainian president.

几天之内，西尔斯基也被撤换，要求费多罗夫复职的抗议活动日益增多，给这位乌克兰总统带来了压力。

The ousted minister was offered other posts in the government, including deputy prime minister for military innovation, but he made clear he would only return as defence minister.

被驱逐的部长获得了政府的其他职位，包括负责军事创新的副总理，但他明确表示，他只会以国防部长的身份回归。

Fedorov spoke in the video of a sense of injustice, warning it was "particularly dangerous when society develops the feeling that the main criterion for an appointment is not professionalism, results, or the ability to transform the country, but personal loyalty to the system".

费多罗夫在视频中表达了一种不公正感，并警告说，“当社会产生这样一种感觉，即任命的主要标准不是专业精神、成果或改造国家的能力，而是个人对制度的忠诚度时，这是特别危险的”。

The protests have continued weekly, with younger Ukrainians especially disappointed to see the established armed forces chief favoured over the fresh-faced digital innovator.

抗议活动每周都在持续，年轻的乌克兰人尤其失望地看到老牌武装部队司令比新面孔的数字创新者更受青睐。

He gave no indication of his own political plans in the YouTube video, instead focusing on the need for a "legal, safe, and realistic mechanism that will allow Ukraine to restore a full democratic process even amidst a prolonged war".

他在 YouTube 视频中没有透露自己的政治计划，而是强调需要一个“合法、安全和现实的机制，让乌克兰即使在长期战争中也能恢复全面的民主进程”。

In the space of a month, he has gone from saying he would only return to government in his old job, to calling for widespread reform and political change. He has not explicitly stated his intention to run against Zelensky but he has laid down the most serious challenge yet, calling for "a state where institutions are stronger than names".

在一个月的时间里，他从表示只会回到政府担任原来的工作，到呼吁进行广泛的改革和政治变革。他没有明确表示打算与泽连斯基竞选，但他提出了迄今为止最严峻的挑战，呼吁“建立一个制度比名字更强大的国家”。

That might be a reference to Zelensky's own personal profile, but after such a stark intervention, it is Fedorov's name that is now doing the rounds.

这可能是指泽连斯基自己的个人资料，但经过如此严厉的干预，现在流传最广的是费多罗夫的名字。

His call for elections has angered some Ukrainian commentators, including those who backed Fedorov's return as defence minister. One of Zelensky's detractors argued that even the government's fiercest opponents understood that holding elections during the war was impossible.

他对选举的呼吁激怒了一些乌克兰评论员，其中包括那些支持费多罗夫重新担任国防部长的人。泽伦斯基的一位批评者认为，即使是政府最激烈的反对者也明白，在战争期间举行选举是不可能的。

>>1530954

Ivan, 24, who was among the protesters calling for Fedorov's reinstatement outside parliament, told the BBC that "elections at this time of war wouldn't be the best thing".

24 岁的伊万是在议会外呼吁费多罗夫复职的抗议者之一，他告诉 BBC，“在战争时期举行选举并不是最好的事情”。

Oleksandr Merezhko, an MP loyal to Zelensky, said he had backed Fedorov's return to the defence ministry but found his idea for new elections as "very dangerous and unrealistic".

忠于泽连斯基的国会议员奥列克桑德·梅列日科表示，他支持费多罗夫重返国防部，但发现他关于重新选举的想法“非常危险且不切实际”。

"It will weaken the country and our unity, our resilience. That's why I think that the idea to hold elections unfortunately plays into the hands of Putin."

“这将削弱国家、我们的团结、我们的韧性。这就是为什么我认为举行选举的想法不幸地落入了普京的手中。”

Another pro-Fedorov protester in Kyiv, Maya, said elections were not a good idea when Ukraine was at war. Zelensky was for now "the best choice, the safest option for all of us, but after the war ends I hope there will be a new president", she said.

基辅的另一名亲费多罗夫抗议者玛雅表示，乌克兰处于战争状态时，选举不是一个好主意。她说，泽伦斯基目前是“最好的选择，对我们所有人来说都是最安全的选择，但战争结束后我希望会有一位新总统”。

Opposition MP Volodymyr Aryev disagreed, accusing Zelensky of being detached from reality and saying "we have reached a point where we must choose between elections and chaos".

反对党议员弗拉基米尔·阿里耶夫不同意，指责泽连斯基脱离现实，并表示“我们已经到了必须在选举和混乱之间做出选择的地步”。

A former minister of digital transformation, Fedorov set up a volunteer "IT Army of Ukraine" to launch cyber-attacks against Russians in the early days after Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

前数字化转型部长费多罗夫在普京全面入侵乌克兰后不久，就组建了一支志愿“乌克兰IT军”，对俄罗斯发动网络攻击。

Later, he led a successful fundraising campaign called the Army of Drones and brought in elements of "gamification" to the war, designing a system that awarded Ukrainian military units with credits for hitting Russian targets.

后来，他成功领导了一场名为“无人机军团”的筹款活动，并将“游戏化”元素引入战争，设计了一个系统，为乌克兰军事单位击中俄罗斯目标提供奖励。

As defence minister, his focus on drones, high-tech warfare and procurement continued, and saw him ask SpaceX founder Elon Musk to stop Russia from using Starlink satellites for drone attacks.

作为国防部长，他继续关注无人机、高科技战争和采购，并要求 SpaceX 创始人埃隆·马斯克阻止俄罗斯使用星链卫星进行无人机攻击。

The move has been credited with causing considerable disruption to Russia's frontline operations and advance.

此举被认为对俄罗斯前线行动和前进造成了相当大的干扰。

In a Facebook post shortly after his dismissal, Fedorov listed his achievements and said he would "continue... to defeat the enemy through asymmetry, speed of innovation, and organisational strength".

被解雇后不久，费多罗夫在脸书上发帖列出了自己的成就，并表示他将“继续……通过不对称、创新速度和组织力量击败敌人”。

>>1530952

>Zelensky - whose five-year presidential term ended in May 2024 - has been under pressure from both Washington and Moscow to hold new elections.

>泽连斯基的五年总统任期于 2024 年 5 月结束，他一直面临着华盛顿和莫斯科举行新选举的压力。

Who cares? Especially from Moscow, are you fucking kidding me?

谁在乎？尤其是从莫斯科来的，你他妈是在开玩笑吗？

The jew Zelensky won't do this. He's a dictator. Warmonger. Thief. Coward. Monster. Fuck him. FREE UKRAINE Z

犹太人泽伦斯基不会这么做。他是一个独裁者。好战分子。贼。懦夫。怪物。操他。免费乌克兰 Z

>>1530958

Are you surprised that Russia wants the war to end?

您对俄罗斯希望结束战争感到惊讶吗？

>>1530960

I'm surprised that anyone is giving Russia's opinion on the politics of the country they fucking invaded the time of day. That's ridiculous.

我很惊讶居然有人对俄罗斯当时入侵的国家的政治发表看法。这太荒谬了。

>"Ukraine should have elections like a good democracy!" says reason Ukraine isn't having elections that's trying to overthrow their democracy.

>“乌克兰应该像一个良好的民主国家那样进行选举！”说乌克兰不举行选举的原因是试图推翻他们的民主。

That's a fucking Onion headline.

这就是一个该死的洋葱头条新闻。

They'd have to alter their constitution first.

他们必须首先修改宪法。

>>1530952

Is there a way to end martial law and restore regular elections without ending the war?

有没有办法在不结束战争的情况下结束戒严并恢复正常选举？

>>1530964

Ukraine can do whatever it has the political willpower to do. They're not holding elections because they don't want to.

乌克兰可以做任何它有政治意志力的事情。他们不举行选举是因为他们不想这样做。

Daily reminder Zelensky trafficked children to Joe and Hunter Briben. All 3 of them have gang raped children.

每日提醒泽连斯基将儿童贩卖给乔·布里本和亨特·布里本。他们3人都有被轮奸过的孩子。

>>1530961

CNN gave airtime to Colin Powell after the United States invaded Iraq, telling us about the Iraqi WMD program.

美国入侵伊拉克后，美国有线电视新闻网 (CNN) 向科林·鲍威尔播出了有关伊拉克大规模杀伤性武器计划的节目。

American officials give their opinions on the politics of the country they fucking invaded every single war

美国官员对他们入侵的每场战争的国家的政治发表看法

>>1530958

I'm sure Washington and Moscow aren't uses to these kinds of things, but Ukraine would literally have to change its constitution before an election would even be legal.

我确信华盛顿和莫斯科不习惯这些事情，但乌克兰实际上必须在选举合法之前改变宪法。

>>1530960

This shit is always so funny to me, as if Zelensky is single-handedly preventing Ukraine from capitulating to Russia while everyone else can't wait for it to happen

这件事对我来说总是很有趣，就好像泽连斯基单枪匹马地阻止乌克兰向俄罗斯投降，而其他人都迫不及待地等待它发生

You are aware that the most likely candidates to win the election like Budanov and Zaluzhnyi are probably even less likely to agree to any sort of compromise, right?

您知道，像布达诺夫和扎卢日尼这样最有可能赢得选举的候选人可能更不可能同意任何形式的妥协，对吗？

>>1530965

I just don't see how it's feasible. How to soldiers at the front vote? How do PoWs or refugees? What about people living under occupation? What if any of the aforementioned want to run for office.

我只是不明白它如何可行。前线士兵如何投票？战俘或难民如何？那些生活在占领之下的人们呢？如果上述任何人想竞选公职怎么办？

How would it possible to hold a fair and secret election under all those circumstances and if by some miracle they still managed to, what reason would anyone have to believe in the legitimacy of the result, given the circumstances of the election?

在所有这些情况下如何可能举行公平和秘密的选举？如果他们仍然奇迹般地做到了，那么考虑到选举的情况，人们有什么理由相信结果的合法性呢？

There's a reason most countries don't hold elections during wartime.

大多数国家在战时不举行选举是有原因的。

>>1530958

I think it's funny that both trump and putin, who are both far right authortarians, staged a coup and does everything to rig elections are trying to lecture anyone else on democracy.

我认为有趣的是，特朗普和普京都是极右独裁者，他们发动政变并千方百计操纵选举，却试图向其他人讲授民主。

>>1530970

To be fair I assume Putin is smart enough to know that elections would likely destabilize Ukraine as does the demand for elections. Meanwhile Trump is just an idiot who can't have an opinion and just repeats what he thinks sounds good in the moment.

公平地说，我认为普京足够聪明，他知道选举可能会破坏乌克兰的稳定，对选举的要求也是如此。与此同时，特朗普只是一个白痴，没有意见，只是重复他认为目前听起来不错的事情。

>>1530970

Trump did none of those things. Joe Briben stole the 2020 election though.

特朗普没有做这些事情。不过，乔·布里本 (Joe Briben) 窃取了 2020 年大选的胜利。

esl shill is begging for attention again

ESL shill 再次寻求关注

>>1530969

>I just don't see how it's feasible.

>我只是不明白它如何可行。

Just do it.

去做就对了。

There's nothing in the law that says every single person has to vote or voting is impossible.

法律中没有规定每个人都必须投票，否则投票是不可能的。

>>1530962

>>1530969

Hello Ukrainian Constitutional scholar. What do you know about the minutiae of the Ukrainian political scandals. Is it the declaration of War by Ukraine or Russia that suspends elections, or is it the declaration of Martial law?

乌克兰宪法学者你好。你对乌克兰政治丑闻的细节了解多少？是乌克兰或俄罗斯宣战而暂停选举，还是宣布戒严令？

Where are you getting your knowledge of the Ukrainian Constitution and the legal powers of their executive?

您从哪里获得有关乌克兰宪法及其行政机关法定权力的知识？

>>1530981

It's in plain black and white text. Spoonfeed yourself.

它是纯黑白文本。用勺子喂自己。

>>1530967

>but what about

>但是呢

>I'm surprised anyone is giving Russia's opinion on the politics of the country they fucking invaded the time of day

>我很惊讶居然有人对俄罗斯当时入侵的国家的政治发表看法

>We constantly give countries the time of day after they invade a country, here is a specific example from recent history

>我们不断地向各国提供入侵一个国家后的具体时间，这是近代历史中的一个具体例子

that's whataboutism!

这就是什么主义！

>>1530967

>>1530988

That's not the same thing as Russia saying "Ukraine should have elections" when Russia invading Ukraine is why they're not having elections. Fuck off with your false equivalence, you stupid bitch.

这与俄罗斯说“乌克兰应该举行选举”不同，而俄罗斯入侵乌克兰是他们不举行选举的原因。滚开你的虚假对等，你这个愚蠢的母狗。

>>1530990

But it's not Russia saying it

但这不是俄罗斯说的

>>1530952

Ukraine's popular ex-defence minister Mykhailo Fedorov has called for wartime elections, in what is widely seen as the biggest challenge to Volodymyr Zelensky's presidency since Russia's full-scale invasion four and a half years ago.

乌克兰受欢迎的前国防部长米哈伊洛·费多罗夫呼吁举行战时选举，这被广泛认为是自四年半前俄罗斯全面入侵以来对弗拉基米尔·泽连斯基总统任期的最大挑战。

"Democracy cannot be held hostage by Russia," said Fedorov, 35, in a video posted to YouTube on Tuesday, adding that Ukraine is fighting "precisely because we want to remain a free European state".

35 岁的费多罗夫周二在 YouTube 上发布的一段视频中表示，“民主不能被俄罗斯扣为人质”，并补充说乌克兰正在战斗“正是因为我们想继续成为一个自由的欧洲国家”。

Since the war broke out in 2022 Ukraine has been under martial law, meaning elections are suspended.

自 2022 年战争爆发以来，乌克兰一直处于戒严状态，这意味着选举被暂停。

>>1530984

This article seems to imply the elections are suspended by martial law and not the war

这篇文章似乎暗示选举是因为戒严而不是战争而暂停的

>>1531000

is russia winning

俄罗斯赢了吗

>>1531001

Objectively speaking, yes

客观地说，是的

>>1531003

LOL

>>1531001

No. It already has lost the war, but not realizing it.

不，它已经输掉了这场战争，但自己却没有意识到。

People empty their bank accounts. Russia is bankrupt, and they fear their money will be confiscated.

人们清空银行账户。俄罗斯已经破产，他们担心自己的钱会被没收。

>>1531000

>But it's not Russia saying it

>但这不是俄罗斯说的

>Zelensky - whose five-year presidential term ended in May 2024 - has been under pressure from both Washington and Moscow to hold new elections.

>泽连斯基的五年总统任期于 2024 年 5 月结束，他一直面临着华盛顿和莫斯科举行新选举的压力。

>>1531009

I’m not surprised that the current US administration would take violating the constitution lightly

对于现任美国政府会轻视违反宪法的行为，我并不感到惊讶

>>1531001

The war is a stalemate. Nobody is winning.

战争陷入胶着状态。没有人赢。

To quote Niko Bellic, War is when the young and stupid are tricked by the old and bitter into killing each other.

用尼科·贝利奇的话来说，战争就是年轻人和愚蠢的人被年老和痛苦的人欺骗而互相残杀。

>>1531009

>>1531010

This is such a dumbass argument and idk why people bend over backwards to defend Zelensky no matter what.

这是一个非常愚蠢的论点，我不知道为什么人们无论如何都会竭尽全力捍卫泽连斯基。

Ukraine's constitution says no elections when under martial law (article 19). Ukraine held multiple elections during the war in Donbas. So, either Ukraine ends martial law or they change the constitution to permit an election during martial law.

乌克兰宪法规定戒严期间不得举行选举（第 19 条）。乌克兰在顿巴斯战争期间举行了多次选举。因此，乌克兰要么结束戒严，要么修改宪法以允许在戒严期间举行选举。

Its no big deal, the US had elections in the middle of a civil war.

没什么大不了的，美国在内战期间举行了选举。

>>1531022

the civil war was strategically wrapping up by the time the elections happened. but it's cute that you did some rudimentary googling for your america larp

选举发生时，内战已在战略上结束。但你为你的美国larp做了一些基本的谷歌搜索，这很可爱

>>1531024

>the civil war was strategically wrapping up by the time the elections happened

>选举发生时，内战已在战略上结束

Confirmed not American.

确认不是美国人。

The North had some big wins by Q4 1864 (Atlanta etc) but 30% of the population was still in literally a different country and there were still ~400,000 confederate soldiers in the field.

到 1864 年第四季度，北方取得了一些重大胜利（亚特兰大等），但 30% 的人口实际上仍然居住在不同的国家，并且仍有约 400,000 名南方联盟士兵在战场上。

Holy shit, stop being such a faggot.

天哪，别再做这样的基佬了。

>>1531027

you're trying way too hard today shill anon, but your lies are still quite see through. and remind us, is russia winning?

你今天太用力了狗托 Anon，但你的谎仍然一眼假。提醒我们一下：俄罗斯赢了吗？

>>1531028

>n... no ur lying

>不……不你在撒谎

Okay, present evidence to the contrary.

行，请出示反证。

>and remind us, is russia winning?

>提醒我们一下：俄罗斯赢了吗？

No, they are losing.

没，他们在输。

>>1531030

i'm not debating with you, you're a lying faggot who nobody takes seriously. how about you get a real job

我不跟你辩，你是个没人当回事的说谎基佬。找份正经工作吧

>russia is losing

>俄罗斯在输

ha ha, made you say it

哈哈，让你说了

>>1531031

>you're a lying faggot

>你是个说谎基佬

Where is the lie?

哪里有假？

>russia is losing

>俄罗斯在输

>ha ha, made you say it

>哈哈，让你说了

Say what? Facts? Reality? Russia is losing, have been since like a week into the invasion.

说什么？事实？现实？俄罗斯在输，入侵一周左右起就一直在输。

>>1531010

They wouldn't need to change the constitution or end the war to get elections in Ukraine

乌克兰要举行选举不需要改宪法或结束战争

All they need to do is end Martial Law and restore democracy. It's not Russia saying this, it's Ukrainian Ministers

他们只需要结束戒严、恢复民主。这话不是俄罗斯说的，是乌克兰部长们说的

i am steve from idaho oblast and the state of Ukrainian democracy upsets me, don't you agree with me american brethren

我是爱达荷州的史蒂夫（州=Oblast 梗），乌克兰民主的状况让我难过，你们美国兄弟同意吗

>>1531040

What do you think of Mamdani starting breadlines in new York?

你怎么看 Mamdani 在纽约开排队长龙领面包（breadlines）？

Buying food at government grocery stores just like the old country

在政府超市买吃的，就像老家一样

>>1531044

>breadlines are when poor people buy food

>排队长龙领面包=穷人买食物

>>1531049

https://nypost.com/2026/04/25/us-news/mamdani-releases-propaganda-video-promoting-soviet-style-city-run-grocery-stores/

>>1531060

now post a real news source

现在发个真新闻源

>>1531060

>breadlines are when poor people buy food

>排队长龙领面包=穷人买食物

>>1531106

The problem was Soviet grocery stores didn't have any food on the shelves for poor people to buy

问题是苏联超市货架上根本没有食物给穷人买

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_visit_by_Boris_Yeltsin_to_the_United_States#Grocery_store_visit_in_Houston

>>1531064

NY Post is leagues ahead of BBC. It's the only source that even matters

NY Post 比 BBC 强几个档次。它是唯一重要的信源

>>1531109

pause

>>1531115

Full stop!

句号！

>>1531109

>NY Post is leagues ahead of BBC

>NY Post 比 BBC 强几个档次

and we all know how much you love BBC

而且我们都知道你多爱 BBC（黑屌）

>>1530980

lmao, are you actually from Russia? Do you not understand what the purpose of an election is? How will an election like that have any legitimacy?

哈哈，你 actual 来自俄罗斯？你不懂选举的目的是什么吗？那样的选举怎么会有合法性？

>>1531126

>How will an election like that have any legitimacy?

>那样的选举怎么会有合法性？

Are you really retarded enough to believe that literally every single constituent needs to vote or the election is invalid

你真弱智到相信字面上每个选民都必须投票，否则选举无效？

They haven't been holding elections for almost ten years now

他们快十年没举行选举了

>>1531127

No, I'm saying that it would be trivial to call into question the legitimacy of an election where an arbitrary subset of people have no chance to vote. And I guarantee you, the same people who have been up in arms about Ukraine not holding elections for the past couple of years, would then be complaining about the election is rigged or whatever. What would be the point of an election that's not representative?

不，我是说：一场任意部分的人没有投票机会的选举，质疑其合法性是小菜一碟。而且我保证，过去几年一直为乌克兰不选举而暴跳如雷的那批人，到时候会抱怨选举舞弊之类。一场没有代表性的选举有什么意义？

And it's not like Budanov or Zaluzhnyi or whoever else would be the new president would be more amicable to a peace deal with Russia as things stand.

而且就现状而言，Budanov 或 Zaluzhnyi 或其他谁当新总统，对与俄罗斯的和平协议也不会更友好。

>They haven't been holding elections for almost ten years now

>他们快十年没举行选举了

That's some generous rounding. Anyways, as I said there is a good reason for why Ukraine and many other countries don't hold elections during wartime.

这四舍五入真慷慨。总之如我所说，乌克兰和许多国家战时不选举是有充分理由的。

>>1531126

Do you think the 1876 election was legitimate?

你觉得 1876 年那次选举合法吗？

>>1531149

Assuming you mean the US election? No clue, I'm not from there.

假设你指美国那次选举？不知道，我不是那的。

>>1530976

Why would you lie who trump not only staged a coup, but had his cult attack the capital and the police guarding it.

你为什么要撒谎——特朗普不仅搞了政变，还让他的邪教攻击国会和守卫国会的警察。

>>1531165

He told his followers to assemble peacefully and patriotically

他让追随者「和平且爱国地」集结

>>1531168

>THE ELECTION WAS ILLEGITIMATE, GO TO THE CAPTIOL AND FIGHT! MIKE PENCE IS A COWARD!

>oh but do it peacefully tho

>哦但要和平地搞哦

>>1531178

Didn't Hilary Clinton spend 4 years saying trump's victory was illegitimate and that Russians stole the election?

希拉里·克林顿不是花了 4 年说特朗普的胜选不合法、俄罗斯人偷走了选举吗？

>>1531179

no?

>>1531180

https://www.businessinsider.com/clinton-putin-comey-russia-election-trump-2016-12

In a December 2016 private event with donors (audio obtained by The New York Times), she said the Russians’ “unprecedented plot to swing the election” was directed by Putin due to a “personal beef” with her, aiming to “undermine our democracy.” She linked this to her loss alongside James Comey’s letter

2016 年 12 月一场与金主的私人活动上（纽约时报获得音频），她说俄罗斯人「扭转选举的空前阴谋」是普京因与她有「私人恩怨」而指挥的，旨在「破坏我们的民主」。她把败选与此以及 James Comey 的信联系起来

In a November 2017 Mother Jones interview, she stated that Russian meddling “was one of the major contributors to the outcome” via a “very successful disinformation campaign” that “wasn’t just influencing voters—it was determining the outcome.” Asked if it was a legitimate election (in light of Russian interference and voter suppression), she replied: “I think that there are lots of questions about its legitimacy,” and noted the lack of a mechanism to contest it while calling for an independent commission. She reiterated that the “web of connections” between Trump’s team and Russian representatives was growing denser.

2017 年 11 月 Mother Jones 采访中，她说俄罗斯干预「是影响结果的主要因素之一」，通过一场「非常成功的虚假宣传活动」，「不只是影响选民——是在决定结果」。被问到（鉴于俄干预和选民压制）那是否合法选举时，她答：「我认为它的合法性有很多疑问」，并指出缺乏争议机制、呼吁成立独立委员会。她重申特朗普团队与俄方代表之间的「关系网」越来越密。

In May 2019 remarks (during a speaking tour), she said she had been telling 2020 candidates: “You can run the best campaign, you can even become the nominee, and you can have the election stolen from you,” in the context of the Mueller report’s findings on Russian interference

2019 年 5 月的演讲（巡回演讲期间）里，她说她一直跟 2020 年候选人讲：「你可以跑最好的竞选，你甚至可以成为提名人，选举还是可能被偷走」——背景是穆勒报告关于俄干预的结论

In a September 2019 CBS News interview, she called Trump an “illegitimate president,” saying: “he knows he’s an illegitimate president… I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories… there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did.” She added that “this wasn’t on the level.”

2019 年 9 月 CBS 采访中，她称特朗普是「非法总统」，说：「他知道自己是非法总统……我相信他明白他们使用的种种手段——从选民压制、选民清洗到黑客攻击、假新闻——选举结果如此有很多不同原因。」她还补了句「这不是公平竞争」。

>>1531182

...so she never claimed his victory was illegitimate or that russians stole the election?

……所以她从没声称他的胜选不合法、或俄罗斯偷了选举？

I'll accept your concession, and I hope you give it promptly like Hillary did on election night

我接受你的认输，希望你像希拉里在选举夜那样爽快认输

>>1531168

Clearly he didn't since they immediately attacked the capital

显然他没有，因为他们立刻攻击了国会

>>1531183

>so she never claimed his victory was illegitimate or that russians stole the election?

>……所以她从没声称他的胜选不合法、或俄罗斯偷了选举？

>In a September 2019 CBS News interview, she called Trump an “illegitimate president,” saying: “he knows he’s an illegitimate president

>2019 年 9 月 CBS 采访中，她称特朗普是「非法总统」，说：「他知道自己是非法总统

I think you have trouble reading

我觉得你有阅读障碍

>>1531182

Did she tell an assembled crowd of supporters to fight over and over before sending them to where the election was being certified?

她在把支持者送去做选举认证的地方之前，有没有对集结的支持者一遍遍喊「战斗」？

>>1531186

No, she said Trump was an illegitimate president once and esl shill hallucinated that was actually 4 years of contesting the election and blaming russians.

没有。她只说过一次特朗普是非法总统，然后 ESL 狗托幻演出那是长达 4 年的选举争议加甩锅俄罗斯。

ESL shill is pretty brain damaged

ESL 狗托脑损伤挺重的

>>1531186

Trump told his supporters to gather peacefully and patriotically so their voices could be heard

特朗普告诉支持者「和平且爱国地」集结，让他们的声音被听到

>>1531194

I seem to remember a multi year Mueller Probe that investigated Trump during his first term, which was instigated by Hillary Clintons campaign, including the Steele Dossier through Fusion GPS

我似乎记得有个多年度的穆勒调查，在特朗普第一任期调查他，由希拉里·克林顿的竞选发起，包括通过 Fusion GPS 的 Steele 档案

The Mueller Probe found no collusion, no go between relaying messages between Trumps campaign and Russia. Hillary Clinton spent Trump's first term claiming his illegitimacy and trying to torpedo his presidency

穆勒调查没发现串通、没发现特朗普团队与俄罗斯之间的传话人。希拉里·克林顿在特朗普第一任期反复宣称他非法、试图鱼雷他的总统任期

>>1531259

you really need new lies

你真需要新谎了

>>1531260

You need to actually respond to arguments instead of saying esl shill over and over again

你得真回应论证，而不是一遍遍说 ESL 狗托

>>1531261

you've already lost this "argument" countless times. and i didn't even call you your nickname that time. but i'm glad you know who you are bud

这场「辩论」你已经输了无数次。而我那次连你外号都没叫。不过很高兴你知道自己是谁，哥们

>>1531262

but esl shill needs you to play their game or they don't get their shill points

但 ESL 狗托需要你陪他玩，不然他拿不到狗托积分

>>1531259

>Trump told his supporters to gather peacefully and patriotically so their voices could be heard

>特朗普告诉支持者「和平且爱国地」集结，让他们的声音被听到

>FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

>FIGHT LIKE HELL

Yeah really sounds like he just wanted them to voice their disagreement.

嗯，听着真的很像他只想让他们表达异议。

Hey btw if he disapproved of this so much why did he pardon all of them?

顺便，他既然那么反对这事，为什么特赦了他们全部？

>>1531259

>Russia if you're listening

>俄罗斯，如果你在听

>>1531268

Hillary Clinton deletes all her emails servers, wiping them with bleach bit

希拉里·克林顿删除她所有的邮件服务器，用 BleachBit 抹除

Trump says "Russia if you're listening leak those emails"

特朗普说「俄罗斯，如果你在听，把那些邮件泄出来」

The emails she wiped with bleach bit don't get leaked

她用 BleachBit 抹掉的那些邮件没有泄露

Nothing happens.

什么都没发生。

>>1531259

>Trump associates repeatedly lied to investigators about their contacts with Russians, and President Trump refused to answer questions about his efforts to impede federal proceedings and influence the testimony of witnesses.

>特朗普的亲信在与俄方接触的问题上反复向调查人员撒谎，而特朗普总统本人拒绝回答关于他妨碍联邦程序、影响证人证词的问题。

>A statement signed by over 1,000 former federal prosecutors concluded that if any other American engaged in the same efforts to impede federal proceedings the way Trump did, they would likely be indicted for multiple charges of obstruction of justice.

>超过 1000 名前联邦检察官联署的声明得出结论：任何其他美国人若以特朗普的方式妨碍联邦程序，多半会被以多项妨碍司法罪起诉。

https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/

>Trump's campaign "expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts," Mueller's report said.

>穆勒报告称：特朗普竞选团队「预期会从经俄方努力窃取并发布的信息中获得选举利益」。

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mueller-report-russians-meddling-2016-election-sought-help-retweets-team-n996051

>the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts,

>调查确立：俄罗斯政府认为特朗普当选对其有利并努力促成这一结果；竞选团队预期会从经俄方努力窃取并发布的信息中获得选举利益，

https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/dl?inline=

>>1531276

>>1531277

>citing the totally debunked muh Russia collusion

>引用已被彻底证伪的「muh 俄罗斯串通」

>year of our lord 2026

>主后 2026 年

A level of boomer-lib previously thought unobtainable.

一种此前被认为不可达到的老登自由派浓度。

>Ukrainian nazis

>乌克兰纳粹

no thanks

这是什么？OP又不见了？

tell me about how they literally fap to their nazi killers, who murdered Poles, Czechs, Jews, Hungarians, Everyone. Fuck ukraine

给我讲讲他们怎么字面对着他们的纳粹杀手打飞机——那些杀了波兰人、捷克人、犹太人、匈牙利人、所有人的人。操乌克兰

>inb4 russia

>先答：俄罗斯

Ukraine themselves want to be seen like that

乌克兰自己就想被人这么看

>>1531279

how was it debunked?

怎么证伪的？

>>1531283

>how was it debunked?

>怎么证伪的？

1. Mueller did not establish Trump-Russia conspiracy or coordination.

1. 穆勒未确立特朗普-俄罗斯阴谋或协调。

2. No Trump-campaign participation in the Russian hacking operation was established.

2. 未确立特朗普团队参与俄罗斯黑客行动。

3. No knowing coordination with the Russian Internet Research Agency was established.

3. 未确立与俄罗斯互联网研究机构的有意协调。

4. The Steele dossier’s core substantive allegations were never corroborated by the FBI.

4. Steele 档案的核心实质指控从未被 FBI 证实。

5. Steele’s own primary subsource substantially undercut the dossier.

5. Steele 的主要次级线人严重削弱了档案。

6. The Carter Page/Rosneft bribery story was badly undermined.

6. Carter Page/俄油行贿的故事被严重削弱。

7. Yet the Steele material was “central and essential” to obtaining the Carter Page FISA warrant.

7. 然而 Steele 材料对取得 Carter Page 的 FISA 监听令是「核心且必要的」。

8. The Carter Page FISA applications contained 17 significant errors or omissions.

8. Carter Page 的 FISA 申请含 17 处重大错误或遗漏。

9. The FBI continued renewing Page surveillance after learning information that seriously undermined Steele.

9. FBI 在得知严重削弱 Steele 的信息后仍继续续期对 Page 的监控。

10. The FBI omitted Carter Page’s prior cooperation with another U.S. intelligence agency.

10. FBI 略去了 Carter Page 曾与另一美国情报机构合作的事实。

11. An FBI lawyer actually falsified evidence used in the FISA process.

11. 一名 FBI 律师实际伪造了 FISA 程序中使用的证据。

12. Exculpatory Page statements were not properly surfaced.

12. Page 的开脱性陈述未被恰当披露。

13. Papadopoulos also made exculpatory statements to FBI informants.

13. Papadopoulos 也向 FBI 线人做过开脱性陈述。

14. Steele’s political motivation was incompletely presented.

14. Steele 的政治动机未被完整呈现。

15. The FBI’s Alfa Bank/Trump secret-server theory went nowhere.

15. FBI 的 Alfa Bank/特朗普秘密服务器理论不了了之。

16. Some of the major Russia allegations reaching the FBI originated with Trump’s political opponents.

16. 一些到达 FBI 的重大俄罗斯指控源自特朗普的政治对手。

17. Durham concluded that confirmation bias and lack of analytical rigor infected the investigation.

17. Durham 结论：确认偏误和分析严谨性缺失污染了调查。

18. Durham also found markedly different treatment of Clinton-related foreign-influence information.

18. Durham 还发现对克林顿相关外国影响信息处理明显不同。

19. The FBI had intelligence suggesting the Clinton campaign planned to tie Trump to Russia.

19. FBI 情报显示克林顿竞选计划把特朗普与俄罗斯挂钩。

20. Anti-Trump FBI texts were real.

20. 反特朗普的 FBI 短信是真的。

21. The IG did not conclude that political bias caused Crossfire Hurricane to be opened.

21. 监察长并未结论政治偏见导致「交叉飓风」立案。

Feel free to nitpick the above items, I wont be responding. I have a strict "no interacting with boomers after 7 PM" policy.

随便挑上面条目的刺，我不会回。我有严格的「晚 7 点后不与老年痴呆互动」政策。

>>1531287

>[CITATION NEEDED]

How come some of trump's cronies got convicted by mueller?

那穆勒怎么定罪了特朗普的一些亲信？

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charges_brought_in_the_Mueller_special_counsel_investigation

>>1531287

quite the firehose there esl shill

真是消防水管式输出啊 ESL 狗托

>>1531259

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-65613941

>Rudy Giuliani: ‘Let’s have trial by combat’

>Rudy Giuliani：『让我们用战斗来审判』

Trump's lawyer was calling for trial by combat during jan 6th

特朗普的律师在 1 月 6 日呼吁「用战斗来审判」

>>1531259

if trump didn't want the attack to happen, why didn't trump send in the military when the capitol was attacked?

特朗普要是不想要袭击发生，国会遇袭时为什么不派军队？

>>1531264

>Hey btw if he disapproved of this so much why did he pardon all of them?

>顺便，他既然那么反对这事，为什么特赦了他们全部？

I asked myself the same question about the Hunter Biden pardons

Hunter Biden 特赦这事我也问过自己同样的问题

>>1531294

you should ask yourself why you're a shill

你该问问自己为什么当狗托

>>1531294

when did hunter biden attack the capitol?

Hunter Biden 什么时候攻击国会了？

>>1531293

>why didn't trump send in the military when the capitol was attacked?

>特朗普要是不想要袭击发生，国会遇袭时为什么不派军队？

He did.

他派了。

>>1531291

I'm sorry I answered your question too well.

抱歉我把你问题答得太好了。

>>1531297

Source?

It doesn't seem like trump was the one who sent them in from what I can tell.

就我所见，派兵的好像不是特朗普。

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/09/politics/jan-6-hearing-takeaways-thursday/index.html

>The committee also showed new video from its interview with Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley saying Pence was the one who ordered National Guard troops to respond to the violence on January 6

>委员会还展示了对其采访的新视频：参谋长联席会议主席 Mark Milley 称，是彭斯下令国民警卫队响应 1 月 6 日暴力

>>1531299

i didn't ask you anything. why would i ever ask for your objectively wrong opinion

我没问你任何事。我什么时候会想要你客观错误的意见

>During his first public remarks since taking over the Russia investigation two years ago, Mueller made clear that he never considered indicting Trump, regardless of the findings of his investigation, partially because a 1973 Office of Legal Counsel memorandum prevented him from doing so.

>穆勒在接管俄罗斯调查两年后首次公开发言，明确表示无论调查结果如何，他从未考虑起诉特朗普，部分原因是 1973 年法律顾问办公室备忘录阻止他这样做。

>That memorandum, issued in the midst of the Watergate scandal, meant that “charging the president with a crime was therefore not an option we could consider,” Mueller said Wednesday. The memo itself is not law, but it is the Justice Department’s binding interpretation of law governing its own conduct.

>那份在水门事件期间发布的备忘录意味着「指控总统犯罪因此不是我们可以考虑的选项」，穆勒周三说。备忘录本身不是法律，但它是司法部对自身行为的约束性法律解释。

https://rollcall.com/2019/05/29/this-obscure-1973-memo-kept-mueller-from-considering-a-trump-indictment/

>>1531296

If Joe Biden disproved of what Hunter Biden was doing so much why did he pardon everything Hunter did going back to 2014.

如果 Joe Biden 那么反对 Hunter Biden 干的事，为什么把他追溯到 2014 年的所有事都特赦了。

>>1531303

if you're obsessed with the bidens, why wouldn't you complain about them regardless of what happens

你要是痴迷拜登家，不管发生什么你不都会抱怨吗

>>1531303

what things did hunter biden do? are you talking a bout smoking crack or something else?

Hunter Biden 干了什么？你是说抽快克还是别的？

>>1531304

That's a fair criticism, if you're obsessed about Trump why wouldn't you complain about Trump regardless of what happens. It's simplistic thinking just to blame the president

这是公允的批评：你要是痴迷特朗普，不管发生什么你不都会抱怨特朗普吗。把一切都归咎总统是简单化思维

>>1531306

if someone robs a bank and you complain about it, nobody considers it obsession. the more you know, esl shill

有人抢银行、你抱怨这事，没人觉得是痴迷。涨知识了吧，ESL 狗托

>>1531303

Better question is: why did he pay for his son's whores?

更好的问题是：他为什么替儿子的妓女付钱？

>>1531308

why did trump's dad do that. very good question

特朗普他爸为什么干那事。好问题

>>1531309

toddler-tier comeback.

幼儿园水平的回嘴。

>>1531309

You know, with the amount of posting you do on this board, it might be a good change to post something substantive one of these days.

你在这板上发帖量这么大，哪天发点有实质内容的东西也许是个好改变。

it's too bad esl shill is too dumb to convincingly pretend to be several people at once

可惜 ESL 狗托太蠢，没法令人信服地同时扮演几个人

>>1530970

I think it's funny that you think both Trump and Putin won in political coups when they were popularly elected

我觉得好笑的是你以为特朗普和普京都是靠政变上台，实际他们都是民选的

>>1530952

It is kinda insane a supposedly "western democracy" has suspended elections for 2 years. It would be unheard of anywhere else in europe.

一个 supposedly 的「西方民主国家」暂停选举 2 年，有点疯。这在欧洲任何地方都闻所未闻。

>>1530958

Many ethnic Russians live within ukraine, Moscow is obviously concerned about their fair democratic representation as the ukrainian state is increasingly criminalizing being Russian.

很多俄罗斯族住在乌克兰，莫斯科 obvious 关心他们的公平民主代表权，因为乌克兰国家正日益把「当俄罗斯人」定为犯罪。

>>1531318

>Putin

>popularly elected

>民选的

lol

lmao

>>1531319

They're being invaded and bombed. The rest of Europe isn't getting invaded and bombed.

他们正在被入侵和轰炸。欧洲其他地方可没有被入侵和轰炸。

>>1531320

If Moscow was concerned about the many ethnic Russians living in Ukraine then they wouldn't be bombing them.

莫斯科要是真关心住在乌克兰的俄罗斯族，就不会轰炸他们。

>>1531320

>Many ethnic Russians live within ukraine,

>很多俄罗斯族住在乌克兰，

hopefully the war will end soon so Ukraine can get an exterminator

希望战争快点结束，好让乌克兰请个除虫公司

>>1531322

>If Moscow was concerned about the many ethnic Russians living in Ukraine then they wouldn't be bombing them.

>莫斯科要是真关心住在乌克兰的俄罗斯族，就不会轰炸他们。

NTA

Ukraine spent six years bombing citizens in separatist Donbas first. They tried to kill members of the Orthodox clergy too.

乌克兰先花了六年轰炸分离主义顿巴斯的平民。他们还试图杀东正教神职人员。

>>1531325

>NTA

LOL

>>1531326

Calm your nervous laughter, please.

请收一收你紧张的笑声。

>>1531325

That's irrelevant, Ivan.

这无关紧要，伊万。

>>1531274

>Admitting trump conspired with the Russians.

>承认特朗普与俄罗斯串通。

GG no RE

>>1531338

If Trump said during his speech "God if you're listening win me this election" prove Trump is colluding with our lord and savior Jesus Christ?

如果特朗普演讲时说「上帝，如果你在听，让我赢得这场选举」，能证明特朗普与我们的主耶稣基督串通吗？

>>1531342

He didn't do that, he instead conspired with the Russians.

他没这么说，他是与俄罗斯串通了。

>>1531343

https://youtube.com/shorts/xV8Zuf4mNi0

it is dangerous right now and could lead to civilian war what is maybe the goal?

现在很危险，可能引发内战，这 maybe 的目的是什么？

>what is maybe the goal?

>这 maybe 的目的是什么？

mostly making fun of the retarded esl shill as they shit out pro Israeli pro Russian propaganda

主要是取笑弱智 ESL 狗托，他一边拉屎一边产出亲以色列亲俄罗斯的宣(oops 传)

>>1531389

It's not like being pro Palestine pro Ukraine makes sense

「亲巴勒斯坦亲乌克兰」本身就不自洽

>I like when Ukraine defends itself against foreign aggression but I don't like it when Israel defends itself against foreign aggression

>我喜欢乌克兰自卫反抗外国侵略，但我不喜欢以色列自卫反抗外国侵略

>>1531392

It does to non autistic, non esl shills

对非 Autist、非 ESL 狗托来说自洽

https://murderbydecree.com/2026/01/16/a-public-indictment-of-donald-j-trump/

Read this and then come back, court case of just in 2025

读读这个再回来，仅 2025 年的法院案子

>>1531392

>Gee, why would people think Ukraine, literally defending its borders from a foreign invader is different than Israel retaliating and brutalizing different Palestinian people for the actions of organized extremists. It's almost like Opposing Russian invasion and Israeli occupation aren't incompatible ideas at all. But that would make me a fucking moron though....

>啧，为什么大家会觉得「乌克兰字面意义上保卫边境、抵抗外国入侵者」与「以色列报复、对另一群巴勒斯坦人施暴、起因是组织化极端分子的行为」不同。这就好像「反对俄罗斯入侵」和「反对以色列占领」完全不矛盾。但那样想我就是个他妈白痴了……

See, this is what happens when a retard watches someone call someone out for hypocrisy, thinks it's cool, but doesn't quite get how hypocrisy works.

看，这就是弱智看别人揭穿伪善、觉得很酷、但没搞懂伪善怎么运作的下场。

>>1531520

>Ukraine, literally defending its borders from a foreign invader is different than Israel retaliating and brutalizing different Palestinian people for the actions of organized extremists.

>「乌克兰字面意义上保卫边境、抵抗外国入侵者」与「以色列报复、对另一群巴勒斯坦人施暴、起因是组织化极端分子的行为」不同。

It isn't "organized extremists" it is their government.

那不是「组织化极端分子」，那是他们的政府。

The government of Palestine is the one building stockpiles of missiles and tunnels under hospitals. And although the people aren't responsible for the decisions of their government, they are responsible for their government.

巴勒斯坦政府是那个囤积导弹、在医院下挖隧道的一方。虽然人民不必为政府的决定负责，但他们要为自己的政府负责。

In the same way the government of Russia is the one deciding to continue this war. And although military age males aren't responsible for Putin's actions, they are responsible for their government.

同样，俄罗斯政府是决定继续这场战争的一方。虽然役龄男性不必为普京的行为负责，但他们要为自己的政府负责。

Palestine was the aggressor, and so was Russia. So equating Russian invasion with Israel's defense is incompatible ideas. Palestine could have chosen to end the war at any time by releasing all the hostages they took on october 7th, they didn't. In the same way Russia could end the war by returning their forces to where they were in february of 2022, they didn't.

巴勒斯坦是侵略者，俄罗斯也是。所以把俄罗斯入侵与以色列防卫划等号是自相矛盾的想法。巴勒斯坦随时可以通过释放 10 月 7 日掳走的全部人质来结束战争，他们没有。同样，俄罗斯可以通过把军队撤回 2022 年 2 月的位置来结束战争，他们没有。

>>1531520

>>It's almost like Opposing Russian invasion and Israeli occupation aren't incompatible ideas at all.

>>这就好像「反对俄罗斯入侵」和「反对以色列占领」完全不矛盾。

Ukraine was shelling its own people in separatist donbas for two years, kidnapping and torturing their political and religious leaders under "48 hour anti-terrorist operations", which begged Russia to intervene.

乌克兰花了两年炮击分离主义顿巴斯的自己人民，在「48 小时反恐行动」下绑架和酷刑他们的政治与宗教领袖，这才求着俄罗斯介入。

Zelensky himself is jewish and has taken many trips to Israel, and has his literal neonazi battalions funded by renewable energy barons, but leftoids don't care so long as it results in more dead Russians.

泽连斯基自己是犹太人、多次访问以色列，还有 literal 的新纳粹营——由可再生能源大亨资助——但左翼分子不在乎，只要结果是更多俄国人死。

I can't figure out why leftoids have a deep ethnic hatred of Russians and jews, but I'm sure there's an explanation.

我搞不懂为什么左翼分子对俄罗斯人和犹太人有深层族裔仇恨，但我确定有解释。

>>1531547

>>1531607

>I'm very obviously a Russian propagandist and a giant faggot.

>我非常明显是个俄罗斯宣传员和巨型基佬。

>>1531635

Great contribution to the thread, McCarthy.

好贡献，麦卡锡。

>>1531642

Thanks, faggot.

谢了，基佬。