Why do CS courses always start with C?

Why do CS courses always start with C?

为什么CS课程总是以C开头？

I checked three unis near me, also checked the curriculum of top schools in the world (some Ivy League schools, chink schools and Scandinavian unis) and even online courses and they always start with C.

我查了我附近的三所大学，还查了世界顶尖学校的课程（一些常春藤盟校，中国佬学校和斯堪的纳维亚大学）甚至在线课程，它们总是以C开头。

Why's that? I thought they'd start with maybe assembly because it's lower language, or maybe even AI or Rust to prepare the students for the future.

这是为什么呢？我认为他们可能会从汇编开始，因为它是低级语言，甚至可能是人工智能或 Rust，为学生的未来做好准备。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787009694050616.png

>>109582655

what else to start with? pascal? python?

还有什么可以开始呢？帕斯卡？ Python？

the purpose is to teach programming, not a specific language while getting lost in its details.

目的是教授编程，而不是教授特定的语言，同时迷失在其细节中。

>>109582655

Because C is bortable asseombelr

因为C是可移植的汇编

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787010266245216.png

>>109582655

I started with Java

我从 Java 开始

>>109582690

no one has ever learned programming in a course

没有人在一门课程中学习过编程

>>109582655

its a great entry point

这是一个很好的切入点

low level enough to make you deal with the realities of computing

低水平足以让你处理计算的现实

high level enough to avoid having to start with the creation of the world to create a coherent model

高水平足以避免必须从创建世界开始创建一个连贯的模型

simple enough so that its not a phd-tier adventure to get to speed

足够简单，所以它不是一个博士级的冒险来加速

and so regardless of what youre supposed to do later

所以无论你稍后应该做什么

its a good idea to do some c.

做一些事情是个好主意 c.

oh, and plenty of languages have a similar syntax

哦，很多语言都有类似的语法

and its a good anchor point to learn asm

它是学习 asm 的一个很好的锚点

because you have higher level concepts to attach asm patterns to- divide to conquer, mechanical-ish learning

因为你有更高层次的概念来附加汇编模式——分而治之、机械式的学习

same reason why the jump to js is easy too

跳转到 js 也很容易的原因相同

you dont learn from scratsh, you go "aha, thats how xyz is done in asm/java/python/rust/c++/etc..."

你不是从 scratsh 学习，你会说“啊哈，这就是 xyz 在 asm/java/python/rust/c++/etc 中的实现方式...”

>Why do CS courses always start with C?

>为什么CS课程总是以C开头？

They don't. Plenty start with Python. Some even start with Java, weirdly enough. But C is a rather solid choice for a first language due to the fundamentals it allows you to understand.

他们不这样做。很多都是从 Python 开始的。有些甚至从 Java 开始，这很奇怪。但作为第一语言，C 是一个相当可靠的选择，因为它能让你理解它的基础知识。

>I thought they'd start with maybe assembly because it's lower language

>我认为他们可能会从汇编开始，因为它是低级语言

No one would teach assembly as a first language, because it's unlikely one is going to program much with it. And also, there's multiple different assembly languages.

没有人会把汇编作为第一语言来教授，因为人们不太可能用它来编程。而且，还有多种不同的汇编语言。

>or maybe even AI or Rust

>或者甚至是 AI 或 Rust

AI isn't a programming language. You can prompt AI to write programs in other languages, though that's unlikely to be taught in an entry level course because you need to understand the generated language to make effective use of prompting (i.e. to make corrections as need be). Also, Rust is generally not recommended as a first language, even by Rust programmers.

人工智能不是一种编程语言。您可以提示人工智能用其他语言编写程序，尽管入门级课程不太可能教授这一点，因为您需要理解生成的语言才能有效利用提示（即根据需要进行更正）。此外，通常不推荐 Rust 作为第一语言，即使是 Rust 程序员也是如此。

>>109582655

>Why do CS courses always start with C?

>为什么CS课程总是以C开头？

it's a good starting point

这是一个很好的起点

>I checked three unis near me, also checked the curriculum of top schools in the world (some Ivy League schools, chink schools and Scandinavian unis) and even online courses and they always start with C.

>我查了我附近的三所大学，还查了世界顶尖学校的课程（一些常春藤盟校，中国佬学校和斯堪的纳维亚大学）甚至在线课程，它们总是以C开头。

it's a good starting point

这是一个很好的起点

>Why's that?

> 这是为什么？

it's a good starting point

这是一个很好的起点

>I thought they'd start with maybe assembly because it's lower language, or maybe even AI or Rust to prepare the students for the future.

>我认为他们可能会从汇编开始，因为它是低级语言，甚至可能是人工智能或 Rust，为学生的未来做好准备。

because C is a good starting point

因为C是一个很好的起点

>>109582655

C is good because it forces you to deal with things like memory management and writing your own data structures.

C 很好，因为它迫使您处理诸如内存管理和编写自己的数据结构之类的事情。

Starting with assembly is an interesting idea and I can't really think of any reasons why it wouldn't work, except that C is just more convenient to standardize around. Every computer known to man has a C99 compiler, whereas if you did assembly you would have to standardize around a particular architecture and operating system and a lot of students would need to mess around with virtual machines and emulators. Better to be pushed off for later.

从汇编开始是一个有趣的想法，我真的想不出它行不通的任何原因，除了 C 更方便标准化。人类已知的每台计算机都有一个 C99 编译器，而如果进行汇编，则必须围绕特定的体系结构和操作系统进行标准化，并且许多学生需要使用虚拟机和模拟器。最好还是推迟到以后再说吧。

>>109582655

because there's no way around C:

因为没有办法绕过 C:

all system APIs are C

所有系统API都是C

all languages have C FFI

所有语言都有 C FFI

your daily unix tools are in C

你日常的 Unix 工具都是 C 语言的

reference implementations of algorithms are in C

算法的参考实现是用 C 编写的

>>109582655

>why do CS courses start with the lingua franca of computer programming

>为什么CS课程从计算机编程通用语言开始

it's a mystery

这是一个谜

1st print C most educational valible

第 1 版 C 最具教育价值

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787018170662810.png

>>109582655

pyshit is the usual collegefag lang ime

pyshit 是常见的 Collegefag lang ime

>>109582655

Just about every school that I checked out starts with Java, mine does. C comes later but before Operating Systems.

我检查过的几乎每一所学校都是从 Java 开始的，我的也是如此。 C 出现得较晚，但出现在操作系统之前。

College C is easy. C for personal projects is a pain.

大学C很容易。 C对于个人项目来说是一种痛苦。

>>109582655

because it start with C. duh.

因为它以 C. 开头。

>>109583199

Based and C99 checked. The reality is: if you can't code in C, you can't program. If the world eventually runs on Redox, then it will be "if you don't know rust, you can't program", but that day is not today.

基于并检查了C99。现实是：如果你不能用 C 语言编写代码，你就不能编程。如果世界最终在 Redox 上运行，那么将会是“如果你不懂 Rust，你就无法编程”，但那一天不是今天。

>>109583651

>C for personal projects is a pain.

>C 对于个人项目来说是一种痛苦。

use tcc.exe with memory safety flag

使用带有内存安全标志的 tcc.exe

https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/109471404

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787025521662823.png

>>109582655

because computer starts with a C silly anon

因为计算机以 C 开头，愚蠢的匿名

>>109582655

>or Rust

>或生锈

Rust syntax and semantics is bloated. No one has the time to waste on explaining intricacies of borrow checker masturbation and other mental illnesses. You wanna start with small language that has minimal concept overhead.

Rust 语法和语义臃肿。没有人会浪费时间去解释借阅检查员手淫和其他精神疾病的复杂性。您想从概念开销最小的小语言开始。

>>109582655

Because while C is difficult in real world scenarios it's also quite easy in beginner ones while also exposing you to some concepts useful later on. There's a reason every nocode larper arrests their development at C

因为虽然 C 在现实场景中很困难，但对于初学者来说也很容易，同时也让您接触到一些以后有用的概念。每个 nocode larper 都在 C 上停止发展是有原因的

>>109582655

Not every uni start with C it depends on the country and personal teacher skill. Only good uni begin with C, C will teach you low level programming and data structure by writing your own. You'll be learning what is a binary tree, a linked list by writing ones. Most uni will even teach you that good algorithm is even faster in Python that generic slop written by a C coder when they will teach the Big O notation.

并非每所大学都以 C 开头，这取决于国家和个人教师技能。只有从 C 语言开始的优秀大学，C 语言才会通过编写自己的语言来教您低级编程和数据结构。您将通过编写二叉树来了解什么是二叉树，即链表。大多数大学甚至会教你，当他们教授 Big O 表示法时，Python 中的优秀算法甚至比 C 程序员编写的通用算法更快。

>>109584846

>C will teach you low level programming and data structure by writing your own. You'll be learning what is a binary tree, a linked list by writing ones.

>C 将通过编写您自己的语言来教您低级编程和数据结构。您将通过编写二叉树来了解什么是二叉树，即链表。

they employ malloc() is a magical S(1) shit and ignore memory management

他们使用 malloc() 是一个神奇的 S(1) 狗屎并且忽略内存管理

they teach to program a Turing machine with infinity memory

他们教如何对具有无限内存的图灵机进行编程

this all is waste of time

这一切都是浪费时间

only real programming is Z80/C64 bare metal

唯一真正的编程是Z80/C64裸机

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787037822108281.png

>>109582707

>avatar poster

>头像海报

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787057268023241.jpg

>>109585143

What colorscheme is that?

那是什么配色？

>>109582707

This is now a Retardia thread

现在这是一个 Retardia 线程

Me retardia. You retardia. We all retardia.

我智障。你这个智障。我们都是智障。

ME DONT WANNA EAT MY POO POO BUT ME MUST EAT ME POOPOO I MUST EAT POO POO

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787065855499694.jpg

Me can into jabascribt my retardia bros

我可以写 jabascribt 我的弱智兄弟

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787065934596324.jpg

>>109582655

I have a BS and MS in CS

我拥有计算机科学学士和硕士学位

I only had two courses in C (low level programming class and operating systems)

我只上过两门 C 课程（低级编程课程和操作系统）

Everything else was python, JavaScript, and java

其他都是 python、JavaScript 和 java

>>109587634

I have a BS and WTF in origami.

我在折纸方面有学士学位和WTF。

Me hab berl, jabascribt and jaba me amazin

我 hab berl、jabascribt 和 jaba me amazin

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787068983838693.jpg

>>109587497

Elefan:))

>>109587497

my sides

我笑拉了

>>109582655

It gives you a greater understanding of how the underlying machine works while also filtering out retards

它可以让您更好地了解底层机器的工作原理，同时过滤掉延迟

>>109582655

Should be starting with C++.

应该从C++开始。

>>109583467

K&R is so accessible. I never read it despite learning C on my own, but going through it, I dont know how anyone can get confused by it.

K&R 是如此触手可及。尽管我自学了 C，但我从未读过它，但通过它，我不知道怎么有人会被它弄糊涂。

>>109582655

because UNIX ate the world.

因为 UNIX 吞噬了世界。

>>109582655

My college used to start with C++ but students were too dumb for it so they switched to Java in hopes of filtering out less kids. The extra noobie non CS major course used Python though.

我的大学曾经从 C++ 开始，但学生们太笨了，所以他们转而使用 Java，希望能过滤掉更少的孩子。不过，额外的菜鸟非 CS 专业课程使用了 Python。

When we did get to the C++ course everyone struggled except for me due to learning it as a young teen. Otherwise I can see myself struggling.

当我们真正学习 C++ 课程时，除了我之外，每个人都在挣扎，因为我是在年轻的时候学习的。否则我会看到自己在挣扎。

I self learned python before college and it did help me grasp concepts that the confusing C++ syntax obfuscated.

我在大学之前自学了 python，它确实帮助我掌握了令人困惑的 C++ 语法所混淆的概念。

I never properly learned C but I appreciate it.

我从未正确学习过 C，但我很欣赏它。

Assembly was just a short section of a computer architecture course for me. Some professors considered C++ just a step above that. Idk everything is whatever programming is fun I dunno just learn and enjoy.

对我来说，汇编只是计算机体系结构课程的一小部分。一些教授认为 C++ 只比它高出一步。我知道一切都是编程有趣的事情，我不知道只是学习和享受。

>>109589330

The same happened at my college, though you eventually have to learn it if youre going to do stuff like digital logic or computer architecture studies.

同样的事情也发生在我的大学，尽管如果你想做数字逻辑或计算机体系结构研究之类的东西，你最终必须学习它。

>>109582655

Why not? Besides, C is sort of the lingua Franca of the computer world. Most APIs are going to be in C for compatibility, since basically everything can interface with it.

为什么不呢？此外，C 可以说是计算机世界的通用语言。为了兼容性，大多数 API 将采用 C 语言，因为基本上所有东西都可以与之交互。

>>109589391

See this >>109582707

看这个>>109582707

>>109589235

Unfortunately true.

不幸的是，事实如此。

>>109589200

No, it's not. It's probably one of the of the worst programming book out there.

不，不是。它可能是最糟糕的编程书之一。

>C is a horrible language. It's made more horrible by the fact that a lot of substandard programmers use it, to the point where it's much much easier to generate total and utter crap with it. Quite frankly, even if the choice of Pascal were to do nothing but keep the C programmers out, that in itself would be a huge reason to use Pascal.

>C 是一种可怕的语言。更可怕的是，许多不合格的程序员使用它，以至于更容易用它产生完全的垃圾。坦率地说，即使选择 Pascal 只是将 C 程序员拒之门外，这本身就是使用 Pascal 的一个重要原因。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787081003397242.jpg

>>109589595

>It's probably one of the of the worst programming book out there.

>这可能是最糟糕的编程书之一。

how

>>109589602

It's outdated. Current standard is c23, even the first example in the book can't be compiled using some compilers. It follows what we now consider to be bad practices.

它已经过时了。目前的标准是c23，即使是书中的第一个例子也无法使用某些编译器进行编译。它遵循了我们现在认为的不良做法。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787081353140024.png

>>109589626

Are we talking the same book?

我们说的是同一本书吗？

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787081670148147.png

>>109589626

Current standard is tcc.exe actually

当前的标准实际上是 tcc.exe

>>109589672

Yeah

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787082477861074.png

>>109589789

>the version of gcc where -Werror became default

> gcc 版本，其中 -Werror 成为默认值

cancer

>>109589789

I mean, just use gcc and it works. Books are going to expire in their tech eventually

我的意思是，只要使用 gcc 就可以了。书籍的技术最终会过期

>>109589626

Everyone uses C99 and your post proves that you have no fucking clue what you’re on about.

每个人都使用 C99，而你的帖子证明你根本不知道自己在说什么。

And thank fucking god that C99 is the de facto standard. Learning C is about learning the language syntax and the imperative programming philosophy, not the endless standard metamasturbation C++ retards obsess over.

感谢他妈的上帝，C99 是事实上的标准。学习 C 是为了学习语言语法和命令式编程哲学，而不是让 C++ 痴迷于无休止的标准自慰。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787084680534656.png

>>109582655

To filter the normies

过滤规范

>>109590045

>Everyone uses C99

>大家都用C99

No, not really. A lot of folks use C11, and C99 VLAs are deprecated and embedded guys still using C89 (ANSI). And the Linux kernal use GNUC.

不，不是真的。很多人使用 C11，C99 VLA 已被弃用，嵌入式人员仍在使用 C89 (ANSI)。 Linux内核使用GNUC。

>>109589595

>>109589595

>pascal lost

>帕斯卡迷失了

>lisp lost

>口齿不清丢失

>rust will lose

>铁锈会消失

>you will never be a woman

>你永远不会成为女人

>>109591508

Why are you assuming Pascal chads are trannies?

你为什么假设帕斯卡查德是变性人？

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787097311853792.jpg

>>109589200

The explanations are great. The exercises are literal shit, hell-on-earth tier.

这些解释很棒。这些练习简直就是狗屎，人间地狱。

C semantically is fucking easy. The hard parts are data structures and the standard library.

C 在语义上非常简单。困难的部分是数据结构和标准库。

>>109589595

Dennis Richie never had to spend mental energy insulting another language.

丹尼斯·里奇从来不需要花费精力去侮辱另一种语言。

>>109589789

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1787103921509605.jpg

>>109582655

So they can cock you in the face because cock starts with c.

所以他们可以用公鸡打你的脸，因为公鸡以 c 开头。

Mine started with Python, and then went into Java. Never even had a class with C.

我的项目是从 Python 开始的，然后转向 Java。连C的课都没上过。

>>109592816

You never got cocked.

你从来没有被击中过。

>>109589166

>how the underlying machine works

>底层机器是如何工作的

What machine? The abstract machine the standard targets?

什么机器？标准目标的抽象机？

Mine also started with Python. I wish I went to a school that still used Lisp or Racket, but I think they all switched to Python. I don't like using Python at all and prefer Javascript. My school is Python, Java, and JS. I don't think there is any C (lol). Nor is there an option for a programming language survey course unfortunately. Going to have to do one on my own that does some C, Ocaml, Prolog, Forth, and APL or something along those lines.

我的也是从 Python 开始的。我希望我去的学校仍然使用 Lisp 或 Racket，但我认为他们都转向了 Python。我根本不喜欢使用Python，更喜欢Javascript。我的学派是Python、Java、JS。我觉得没有C（笑）。不幸的是，也没有编程语言调查课程的选择。我必须自己做一个来处理一些 C、Ocaml、Prolog、Forth 和 APL 或类似的东西。

>>109582655

Because C is the basis for all foreign function interfaces that allow languages to talk with each other, and the operating system. If you don't know how to make your program talk with parts of the computer outside of itself, then you are severely limited in what you can accomplish and understand about what your computer actually does.

因为 C 是所有外部函数接口的基础，这些接口允许语言之间以及操作系统之间进行对话。如果您不知道如何让您的程序与计算机自身之外的部分进行通信，那么您可以完成的任务和理解计算机实际功能的能力就会受到严重限制。

>>109582655

no-cost free compilers only exist for c.

免费的编译器仅适用于 c。

A fuckton of software is written with C and C is more likely for a person to use that write assembly since its close to bare metal but high level

一大堆软件都是用 C 编写的，而 C 更有可能使用该编写程序集，因为它接近裸机，但级别较高

>>109583467

>>109582655

When and were was C in Intro to programming standard, even MIT switched from LISP to Python. My school used Java but now I think they use Python

当 和 是《编程标准入门》中的 C 时，甚至 MIT 也从 LISP 转向了 Python。我的学校使用 Java，但现在我认为他们使用 Python

>>109582655

Not all CS curriculums start with C.

并非所有 CS 课程都以 C 开头。

Which is a pity.

遗憾的是。

C is the best language to start with.

C 是最好的入门语言。

In 5 years you will either laugh at how ignorant this post is OR you will have learned nothing and think you are a genius cooder.

5年后，你要么会嘲笑这篇文章是多么无知，要么你什么也没学到，并认为自己是一个天才编码员。

>>109596726

Used to be standard to start with C++ but stick to the parts of C++ which are pretty much C.

曾经是从 C++ 开始的标准，但坚持使用 C++ 中几乎是 C 的部分。

Then it was decided CS wasn't brown enough and that CS was too hard and that in order to produce more CS diplomas alot of universities watered down the curriculum and made it easier to graduate so...

然后人们认为计算机科学还不够棕色，计算机科学太难了，为了产生更多的计算机科学文凭，许多大学淡化了课程并使其更容易毕业，所以......

>>109596726

>even MIT switched from LISP to Python

>甚至 MIT 也从 LISP 转向了 Python

MIT hasnt been relevant in years. I regret wanting to go to that school. Thank god it was too expensive.

麻省理工学院多年来一直没有相关性。我很后悔想去那所学校。感谢上帝，它太贵了。