You don't need vulkan.
你不需要 vulkan。
你不需要 vulkan。
>>109563201
>im too retarded to understand how the gpu works
>我太弱智了，无法理解GPU是如何工作的
Good for you, OP.
对你有好处，OP。
>>109563243
fappybrappy.
>>109563201
Show me where OpenGL achieves better performance than Vulkan.
向我展示 OpenGL 在哪些方面比 Vulkan 获得了更好的性能。
>>109563201
> I love my shit ass triangles
> 我喜欢我的屁股三角形
We should bring eugenics back
我们应该恢复优生学
>>109563365
opengl can render anything (You) can throw at it with 999FPS
opengl 可以渲染任何（你）可以用 999FPS 扔给它的东西
>>109563483
Benchmarks?
>>109563201
>implying I need a gpu and a snowflake api
>暗示我需要一个 GPU 和一个雪花 api
We're converging toward a future with MOAR CORES BIGGER SIMD therefore the future is software rendering.
我们正在走向 MOAR CORES BIGGER SIMD 的未来，因此未来是软件渲染。
>>109563201
>deprecated
>>109563201
if you take opengl es 3.0 it's truly cross-platform, you really don't need more.
如果你使用 opengl es 3.0，它是真正的跨平台，你真的不需要更多。
>>109563574
Only when the 299 usd walmart laptop has a 192 cores and 200 gb/s of memory bandwidth.
仅当 299 美元的沃尔玛笔记本电脑具有 192 个内核和 200 GB/s 的内存带宽时。
>>109563201
OpenGL is hard to use, due to, for example, all the global states. It's also supposedly hard for the driver vendor to optimize for. That's why Vulkan was created.
例如，由于所有全局状态，OpenGL 很难使用。据推测，驱动程序供应商也很难对其进行优化。这就是创建 Vulkan 的原因。
You can implement opengl on top of vulkan
您可以在 vulkan 之上实现 opengl
>>109563243
Show me on this graph where the "gpu" is, in your "low-level" graphics api
在此图表中显示“gpu”在“低级”图形 api 中的位置
>>109565369
Everything colored blue is the gpu
所有蓝色的都是 GPU
>>109563365
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8HF2WPcHqU
but with enough work you can make vulkan just as good or better than opengl.
但只要有足够的工作，您就可以使 vulkan 与 opengl 一样好甚至更好。
but a mobile/VR headset chip's is that your CPU is equal to a budget (but strong) desktop CPU like a 7600x / apple m4, but your GPU is about as weak a steamdeck.
但移动/VR耳机芯片的特点是，你的CPU相当于预算（但强大）的桌面CPU，如7600x/苹果m4，但你的GPU与steamdeck一样弱。
That's a important note because the main benefit of vulkan is AZDO, which is basically short for vulkan has a lower CPU overhead (for example, the opengl driver for my Nvidia GPU has a background thread + extra threads for compiling shaders, vulkan doesn't, so the opengl driver is just doing more to increase throughput on a single thread compared to vulkan)
这是一个重要的说明，因为 vulkan 的主要优点是 AZDO，它基本上是 vulkan 的缩写，具有较低的 CPU 开销（例如，我的 Nvidia GPU 的 opengl 驱动程序有一个后台线程 + 用于编译着色器的额外线程，而 vulkan 没有，因此与 vulkan 相比，opengl 驱动程序只是做了更多的工作来增加单线程的吞吐量）
>>109565550
>CPU is equal to a budget (but strong) desktop CPU like a 7600x / apple m4,
>CPU 等于预算（但强大）台式机 CPU，如 7600x/苹果 m4，
*Well, it's about as equal as you would expect a 5-10 watt chip would be.
*嗯，它与您期望的 5-10 瓦芯片差不多。
The CPU isn't going to be doing much anyways, since it's going to be spending most of it's time waiting for the GPU to finish up, and doing anything expensive on the CPU will only cause the GPU to take longer since the GPU needs to constantly read memory from ram.
无论如何，CPU 不会做太多事情，因为它将花费大部分时间等待 GPU 完成，而在 CPU 上做任何昂贵的事情只会导致 GPU 花费更长的时间，因为 GPU 需要不断地从 RAM 读取内存。
>>109565428
Okay, so what are the other colors then, mr. "Smarty pants"
好的，那么其他颜色是什么，先生？ “聪明裤”
>>109563201
I still use opengl 2.1
我仍然使用opengl 2.1
>>109566523
Green and gray
绿色和灰色
>>109563201
I don't think most people should use Vulkan directly, instead use something like ANGLE/SDL_gpu, or WebGPU.
我认为大多数人不应该直接使用 Vulkan，而是使用 ANGLE/SDL_gpu 或 WebGPU 之类的东西。
OpenGL is still fine for educational purposes, but it shouldn't really be used for any new serious projects.
OpenGL 对于教育目的来说仍然很好，但它不应该真正用于任何新的严肃项目。
[spoiler]I wish graphics wasn't such a disaster.[/spoiler]
[剧透]我希望图形不是一场灾难。[/剧透]
If you do everything in OpenGL, it will run everywhere because everybody still supports it somehow. If you use Vulkan your shit won't run on Metal or DirectX or whatever the scene is, I no longer care because OpenGL is all you need.
如果你用 OpenGL 做所有事情，它就会在任何地方运行，因为每个人仍然以某种方式支持它。如果你使用 Vulkan，你的东西就无法在 Metal 或 DirectX 或任何场景上运行，我不再关心，因为 OpenGL 就是你所需要的。
>>109563201
vulkan has dynamic rendering now, you can stop screeching
vulkan 现在有了动态渲染，你可以停止尖叫了
>>109565550
I'm not watching a 52 minute video. Show me benchmarks of OpenGL outperforming Vulkan.
我不是在看 52 分钟的视频。显示 OpenGL 优于 Vulkan 的基准测试。
>>109563365
You don't need performance bro, you're a lone sad little twink in your basement drawing two triangles with one poorly written shader and some copy pasted screen space processing, you're neither a AAA studios of hundreds of devs crafting a scene for 6 month to run smoothly on your potato device, nor a demoscener that might hack something cool out of your overpriced hardware. OpenGL 1.2 is fast enough for you boy.
你不需要性能，兄弟，你是一个在地下室里孤独悲伤的小家伙，用一个写得不好的着色器和一些复制粘贴的屏幕空间处理来画两个三角形，你既不是一个由数百名开发人员精心制作的场景需要 6 个月才能在你的土豆设备上流畅运行的 AAA 工作室，也不是一个可能从你昂贵的硬件中破解出一些很酷的东西的演示场景。 OpenGL 1.2 对你来说已经足够快了。
>>109566583
Based accumulation buffer bro.
基于累积缓冲区兄弟。
>>109566633
WebGPU is soooo fine I made my vulkan renderer a partial rendition of it.
WebGPU 太棒了，我让我的 vulkan 渲染器对其进行了部分再现。
>>109566836
90% of people needing 3d in their app don't need anything else than OpenGL. Younglings are larping over vulkan because they have wetdreams of making the next big things out of their single hands, and because it's the hype and new thibgs., but really it's made for low Kevel programmer and computationally serious applications.
90% 的应用程序中需要 3D 的人除了 OpenGL 之外不需要任何其他东西。年轻人对 vulkan 津津有味，因为他们梦想着用自己的双手做出下一个伟大的东西，也因为它是炒作和新事物。但实际上它是为低 Kevel 程序员和计算密集型应用程序而设计的。
Hell before 1.3, albeit there was some neat extensions the things was a nightmare to setup properly for dynamic rendering.
在 1.3 之前，尽管有一些简洁的扩展，但正确设置动态渲染却是一场噩梦。
OpenGL 4.6 and es 3.1 are still neat and let peoples grape CG concepts if they need to dig deeper later on. It's more than fine.
OpenGL 4.6 和 es 3.1 仍然很简洁，如果人们以后需要深入挖掘的话，可以让他们了解 CG 概念。这再好不过了。
>>109566999
how many people do you think i'd've cut off from playing if i made my dream game in vulkan 1.3
如果我用 vulkan 1.3 制作我梦想的游戏，你认为我会停止玩多少人
>>109563574
We’re converging toward you renting cloud access on a tablet terminal you also don’t own.
我们正在趋向于让您在自己不拥有的平板电脑终端上租用云访问权限。
>>109566915
The video has benchmarks showing opengl backend of godot running faster than vulkan.
该视频的基准测试显示 godot 的 opengl 后端运行速度比 vulkan 更快。
The benchmarks are not conclusive but it clearly shows that vulkan is not a free win.
基准测试并不是决定性的，但它清楚地表明 vulkan 并不是免费的胜利。
Also at the end they mention that vulkan has a foveated rendering and subsample layout feature, opengl has multiple VRS extensions (but I think only Nvidia's VRS extension works for Foveated rendering for opengl, I thnk you need Vulkan if you want a unified Foveated Rendering extension for Intel/AMD, since the other opengl VRS extensions apply to the whole framebuffer I think? and there is a QCOM extension for Foveated rendering (maybe AMD/Intel support if it's not an ES extension?), AND there is a GL_QCOM_texture_foveated_subsampled_layout which handles the subsample layout mentioned in the video, but it's only for mobile, but I think the vulkan subsample layout is mobile only too).
最后他们还提到 vulkan 有一个 foveated 渲染和子样本布局功能，opengl 有多个 VRS 扩展（但我认为只有 Nvidia 的 VRS 扩展适用于 opengl 的 Foveated 渲染，我想如果你想要 Intel/AMD 的统一 Foveated 渲染扩展，你需要 Vulkan，因为我认为其他 opengl VRS 扩展适用于整个帧缓冲区？并且有一个用于 Foveated 渲染的 QCOM 扩展（也许如果不是 ES 扩展，AMD/Intel 支持吗？），并且有一个 GL_QCOM_texture_foveated_subsampled_layout 处理视频中提到的子样本布局，但它仅适用于移动设备，但我认为 vulkan 子样本布局也仅适用于移动设备）。
So yeah, opengl is pretty awful for VR. But it's nice to know there is a "path" and like I said, the opengl driver is just doing extra work compared to vulkan, which may either work well or backfire (since it makes things really hard to optimize when different platforms have completely different performance problems, and it might be caused by a shitty opengl Driver, but vulkan is does very little for you, well newer vulkan versions have been adding in dynamic state similar to opengl, so maybe it's as easy as opengl now?).
所以，是的，opengl 对于 VR 来说非常糟糕。但很高兴知道有一条“路径”，就像我说的，与 vulkan 相比，opengl 驱动程序只是做了额外的工作，这可能工作得很好，也可能适得其反（因为当不同平台有完全不同的性能问题时，它使事情变得非常难以优化，并且它可能是由糟糕的 opengl 驱动程序引起的，但 vulkan 对你来说几乎没有什么作用，新的 vulkan 版本已经在类似于 opengl 的动态状态中添加，所以也许它和 opengl 一样简单现在？）。
>>109567221
Isn’t VR a failed technology?
VR难道不是一项失败的技术吗？
>>109563201
Based and true anon
有根据且真实的匿名
(I am mad my gpu is too old to support vulkan - radeon HD 6450A)
（我很生气我的 GPU 太旧了，无法支持 vulkan - radeon HD 6450A）
>>109563365
It was only valid when you do ollama with vulkan, more token per second, but with opengl less token per second by a huge margin.
仅当您使用 vulkan 执行 ollama 时，它才有效，每秒令牌数更多，但使用 opengl 每秒令牌数大幅减少。
>>109563201
Most old software has code base that is optimised for opengl and not readily compatible with vulkan. Vulkan is make for new software.
大多数旧软件都有针对 opengl 优化的代码库，并且不容易与 vulkan 兼容。 Vulkan 是为新软件而设计的。
All employed people use DirectX, CopenGL and Vulkuck is from trannies.
所有在职人员都使用 DirectX、CopenGL，Vulkuck 来自异性恋。
>>109563201
this but unironically.
就是这个意思，而且是认真的。
i have never seen anything bottlenecked by api dispatch. dx12 and vulkan solve a problem that isn't there.
我从未见过 api 调度造成任何瓶颈。 dx12 和 vulkan 解决了一个不存在的问题。
>>109569081
no one uses directx directly. stop larping, tranny. employed people use es.
没有人直接使用 directx。别再拉了，变性人。就业人员使用 es。
Why the fuck would an indie dev making pixel 2d shit need vulkan?
为什么一个制作 Pixel 2D 狗屎的独立开发者需要 vulkan？
vulkan isn't necessary if your application is compute bound and not spending much time in the driver
如果您的应用程序受计算限制并且在驱动程序上花费的时间不多，则不需要 vulkan
>>109567010
Depending on the platform you are aiming for, around 40% being conservative:
根据您的目标平台，大约 40% 是保守的：
https://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/displaycoreproperty.php?platform=windows&name=apiversion
But you can use 1.1 with common extensions that emulate the better part of 1.3 like dynamic rendering, this is what I've done for a time.
但是您可以使用 1.1 和通用扩展来模拟 1.3 的更好部分，例如动态渲染，这就是我曾经做过的一段时间。
Also it's worth noting that the demographic you are aiming for is likely part of the 60% that have Vulkan 1.3 or higher.
另外值得注意的是，您的目标人群可能是拥有 Vulkan 1.3 或更高版本的 60% 的人群。
>>109569727
It's a hype / parasocial group thing among young developers on the internet.
这是互联网上年轻开发者之间的炒作/准社会团体的事情。
That being said, if you're serious about compute graphics at some point you want to play with the last extensions and not want to be left out, like ray tracing or mesh shaders, without having to learn again or making yet another 'engine'. So it does make sense.
话虽这么说，如果您在某个时候认真对待计算图形，那么您希望使用最新的扩展，并且不想被排除在外，例如光线追踪或网格着色器，而无需再次学习或制作另一个“引擎”。所以这确实有道理。
But realistically, unless you're in a niche industry, you don't need anything else than OpenGL. I know for one things having hardware accelerated video processing with Vulkan is a nightmare on Android (or anywhere for that matter) compared to OpenGL.
但实际上，除非您处于利基行业，否则除了 OpenGL 之外您不需要任何其他东西。我知道，与 OpenGL 相比，使用 Vulkan 进行硬件加速视频处理在 Android（或任何其他地方）上是一场噩梦。
>>109569122
The first half of your post implies its notably faster at dispatch but then imply that being faster at dispatch is bad because it's not a problem you currently face. I'd rather not have the bottleneck in the first place than wait for it to arise as a problem and then hope they solve it after I needed it. I don't understand why something being more optimal would be construed as negative.
你的帖子的前半部分暗示它的调度速度明显更快，但随后暗示调度速度更快是不好的，因为这不是你当前面临的问题。我宁愿一开始就没有瓶颈，也不愿等待它作为问题出现，然后希望他们在我需要它后解决它。我不明白为什么更优化的东西会被解释为负面的。
>>109563201
Id like to use proton (dxvk, vkd3d), so yes I do
我想使用质子（dxvk，vkd3d），所以是的我愿意
>>109569140
>t.roon
you are unemployed
你失业了
>>109566836
>OpenGL, it will run everywhere
>OpenGL，它会在任何地方运行
macos only supports up to ogl 4.1, and theyre removing support for it completely soon
macos 仅支持 ogl 4.1，并且他们很快就会完全删除对其的支持
>>109569857
anyone who buys into macos deprecation treadmill deserves what they get.
任何购买 macOS 弃用跑步机的人都值得他们得到的东西。
>>109569790
very good points
非常好的观点
I think vulkan evangelists forget that vidja development isn't the only use case for gpu acceleration
我认为 vulkan 传播者忘记了 vidja 开发并不是 GPU 加速的唯一用例
sure, if you're working for big corpo game company writing the rendering engine for open world sloppa game #139856, then you'll need a low overhead graphics api to contend with the insane complexity of modern geometry and shading pipelines
当然，如果您正在为大型 corpo 游戏公司工作，为开放世界 sloppa 游戏 #139856 编写渲染引擎，那么您将需要一个低开销的图形 API 来应对现代几何和着色管道的疯狂复杂性
but if you're writing a video codec, a digital art program, a video player, an image editor, or pretty much anything else that only does 2d graphics, then your entire graphics pipeline will basically just be setting up gpu state and running some compute shaders, and in that case vulkan will have little to no performance benefit over opengl
但是如果您正在编写视频编解码器、数字艺术程序、视频播放器、图像编辑器或几乎任何其他只执行 2d 图形的东西，那么您的整个图形管道基本上只是设置 GPU 状态并运行一些计算着色器，在这种情况下，vulkan 相对于 opengl 几乎没有性能优势
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