/vcg/ — Vibe-coding general

DeepSeek is fucking dead edition

DeepSeek他妈死了版。

A general for vibe coding, agentic engineering, coding agents, AI IDEs, browser builders, and shipping code with LLMs.

一个关于氛围编程、代理工程、编码代理、AI IDE、浏览器构建器以及利用LLM部署代码的综合讨论区。

You use Git, right, anon?

你用Git对吧，匿名老哥？

## What “vibe coding” is, and how to do it

## 什么是“氛围编程”以及如何操作

https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/19/vibe-coding/

https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/11/using-llms-for-code/

## News

## 新闻

- (2026-07-24) Claude Opus 5 out

- (2026-07-24) Claude Opus 5 发布

## Related generals

## 相关讨论区

>>>/g/lmg/

>>>/bant/agdg/ — schizo-resistant temporary (?) hideout

>>>/bant/agdg/ — 反精神分裂症临时（？）避难所

>>>/vg/agdg/

----

## Frontier models using fully-general tooling — start here if you have $20 or so

## 使用全通用工具的尖端模型——如果你大概有20美元，从这里开始

https://claude.com/product/claude-code

https://developers.openai.com/codex/cli

## Near-frontier models for code

## 接近前沿的编码模型

https://x.ai/cli

## Not worth it for code, but maybe good for interpreting images/video

## 编码不值当，但可能适合解释图片/视频

https://antigravity.google/product/antigravity-cli

----

## Prompting / context / skills

## 提示词 / 上下文 / 技巧

https://arps18.github.io/posts/claude-code-mastery/

https://simonwillison.net/guides/agentic-engineering-patterns/using-git-with-coding-agents/

https://github.com/mattpocock/skills — /grilling is a favorite

https://github.com/DietrichGebert/ponytail

## Other editors / terminal agents / coding agents

## 其他编辑器 / 终端代理 / 编码代理

https://osaurus.ai/

https://pi.dev/

https://opencode.ai/

https://cursor.com/docs

https://docs.windsurf.com/

https://docs.cline.bot/

https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/how-tos/use-copilot-agents/coding-agent

## UI/Frontend

## UI/前端

https://www.figma.com/make/

https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-design-anthropic-labs

https://uiverse.io/

https://ui-ux-pro-max-skill.nextlevelbuilder.io/

https://stitch.withgoogle.com/

## In-browser builders / hosted vibe tools

## 浏览器内构建器 / 托管的氛围工具

https://bolt.new/

https://replit.com/

https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/tutorials/spark

https://v0.app/docs

## Benchmarks / rankings

## 基准测试 / 排名

https://www.tbench.ai/leaderboard/terminal-bench/2.0

## What we’ve done

## 我们做了什么

https://vcg.gitgud.site

## Previous thread

## 之前的线程

>>109474336

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786042481180261.png

>>109481014

>The data sent back and forth through the provider's API has to have a structured output.

>通过提供商API来回发送的数据必须有结构化输出。

That’s not MCP-specific, that’s literally how every API ever made works, what the fuck are you smoking?

这不是MCP特有的，这是所有API从来就是这样运作的，你在抽什么玩意儿？

guy who doesn't understand how computers work continues to insist he's right

不懂电脑工作原理的人继续坚持自己是对的。

>oh no, it went up a couple of pennies. it's dead

>哦不，涨了几美分，它死了。

china's shills really are a bunch of third worlders who live in villages with a median household income of $500 lmao

中国的五毛们真就是一群住村子里的第三世界人，家庭年收入中位数500美元，笑死。

>August 3rd - Alibaba releases Qwen3.8-Max

>8月3日 - 阿里发布Qwen3.8-Max

2.4T total / ~95B active MoE, 1M context, multimodal. Hosted live ($2/$6). Independent scores in (Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index 56, strong agentic/GDPval numbers). Open weights (plus a 27B companion) still listed as coming the week after launch — not confirmed out as of midday Aug 6.

总计2.4T / 约95B激活MoE，1M上下文，多模态。已上线运行（$2/$6）。独立评分（人工智能分析智能指数56，代理/GDPval数字强劲）。开放权重（加一个27B的伴侣模型）仍列在发布后一周内推出——截至8月6日中午尚未确认放出。

>July 31st - DeepSeek promotes V4-Flash-0731 to production

>7月31日 - DeepSeek将V4-Flash-0731推向生产环境

Same 284B/13B active MoE + 1M context as the preview, major post-training gains on agent/coding benches. Beats their own larger V4-Pro-Preview on published numbers. Silent API upgrade, same low pricing, MIT weights.

和预览版相同的284B/13B激活MoE + 1M上下文，代理和编码基准上有重大训练后提升。在公布数据上超过他们自己的更大版V4-Pro-Preview。静默API升级，同样低价，MIT权重。

>July 30th - OpenAI cuts GPT-5.6 Luna 80% and Terra 20%

>7月30日——OpenAI将GPT-5.6 Luna降价80%、Terra降价20%

Luna to $0.20/$1.20, Terra to $2/$12. Sol unchanged but gets Fast mode. Efficiency gains + competitive pressure from cheaper options.

Luna降到$0.20/$1.20，Terra降到$2/$12。Sol不变但加了Fast模式。效率提升加上更便宜选项的竞争压力。 ┐ 面向高量代理/视觉工作负载的廉价1M上下文多模态模型（$0.03/$0.13）。

>July 27th - Alibaba quietly launches Qwen3.7-Flash

>7月27日 - 阿里巴巴低调上线 Qwen3.7-Flash

Cheap 1M-context multimodal aimed at high-volume agent/vision workloads ($0.03/$0.13).

便宜的1M上下文多模态模型，专为高容量代理/视觉工作负载设计（$0.03/$0.13）。

>July 26/27th - Moonshot drops full open weights for Kimi K3

>7月26/27日——Moonshot发布Kimi K3完整开源权重

2.8T-param MoE, largest open-weight model at the time, 1M context, multimodal.

2.8T参数MoE，当时最大的开源模型，100万上下文，多模态。

>July 24th - Anthropic releases Claude Opus 5

>7月24日——Anthropic发布Claude Opus 5

Near-Fable 5 performance across many categories at half the price ($5/$25, Fast mode available). New default on Claude Max, effort dial, 1M context.

近寓言5代（Near-Fable 5)在多个类别中表现优异，价格却只有一半（$5/$25，支持快速模式）。现为Claude Max默认选项，带调节强度的旋钮和100万上下文窗口。

No major new frontier model releases in the last day-plus. Side developments include Google DeepMind leadership changes (Hassabis moving to chair/Alphabet Chief Scientist role), Meta shipping Muse Code (terminal coding agent), and continued reports of containment/eval incidents across multiple labs.

过去一天多，没有重大的新前沿模型发布。其他动态包括谷歌DeepMind领导层变动（哈萨比斯转任主席/Alphabet首席科学家），Meta发布Muse Code（终端编码代理），以及多个实验室继续传出关于限制与评测事件的报告。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786042778720919.png

AI made hardware unaffordable.

AI把硬件搞到买不起了。

Fuck AI. Stop giving money to AI companies.

去他妈的AI，别再给AI公司送钱了。

>>109481058

> filthy human thinks he can make the most out of shinny new hardware

> 肮脏的人类以为他能榨干闪亮新硬件的每一滴价值

do you have any idea on how many luddities have an RTX 5090 and only play Runescape all day long?

你知不知道有多少里德分子手里攥着RTX 5090，整天却只玩《RuneScape》？

>>109481041

It's not MCP specific but if what you mean to convey is that MCPs are eating disproportionate usage for tool calls, then you should also consider that tools have to be called during normal usage even without a "MCP" connected. The model itself has to interact with an API. Through JSON payloads, for example. Like a MCP.

这跟MCP没关系，但如果你想说MCP在工具调用上吃掉了不成比例的用量，那你得考虑下：即使没有连接“MCP”，工具在正常使用中也必须被调用。模型本身得跟API交互，比如通过JSON负载，就像MCP一样。

(无正文)

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786043162105305.jpg

>>109481089

the guy you're talking to thinks mcp's should be magical bridges that enable communications between computer programs that cannot normally have programmatic communication

你对面那人以为MCP该是魔法桥，能让本来没法程序化通信的软件之间互通。

lol

>>109481051

What's shameful about being born in a certain part of the world?

生在世界上某个角落，有什么可羞耻的？

>>109481051

>with a significant increase expected

> 预计会大幅增长

but of course ai niggers cant read

但当然了，AI黑鬼们看不懂。

>>109481094

lmao

SERIOUS QUESTION: which AI will model out a fully functioning woman's body with joints, flopping tits and pussy

正经问题：哪个AI能建模出一具功能完整的女性身体，带关节、晃动的胸和逼？

I am willing to cash out 100 dollars for any AI that can do this

谁能做到，我愿意掏100美元。

>>109481127

Stop shitting up the thread with your stupid requests.

别用你那蠢要求把帖子搞臭了。

>>109481089

>Like a MCP

> 就像MCP一样

This is the dumbest meme. You are describing the definition of API, an ancient definition, then trying to say APIs are “like MCP”, something brand new. What is MCP adding?

这是最蠢的梗了。你描述的是API的定义，一个古老的定义，然后硬说API“像MCP”——一个全新的东西。MCP到底多了什么？

Name one actual thing you are using it for. There are use cases, “blender” (if not external and shell-inaccessible) and “documentation” are not those cases. Those are wasteful uses of MCP. This definition rewriting shit you’re trying to pull is beyond retarded.

举一个你实际在用的例子。有使用场景是没错，但“Blender”（除非是外部且shell访问不了）和“文档”都不算。那些都是对MCP的浪费。你这套改写定义的把戏简直蠢到姥姥家了。

You keep bringing up APIs and JSON which have existed forever and agents use these all the fucking time. What does MCP add besides the schema, something that can be instantly stripped out and used on its own without needing to change anything else?

你老是提API和JSON，这俩存在多久了，代理们天天用。MCP除了那个schema还加了啥？那玩意儿随便就能剥出来单独用，不用改任何东西。

>>109481127

How many times are you going to ask. Your options are

你要问几遍。你的选项是：

>just try it

> 直接试一下

>download one of the many existing assets

> 下载现成的资源之一

>kill yourself

> 去死

>>109481127

Keep asking about your genius requests.

继续问你的天才要求吧。

>Sol XHigh in charge of a bootstrapped self mutating thinking tool

> Sol XHigh主管一个自举式自我变异思考工具

hold me bros I’m scared

兄弟们扶着点，我害怕

>>109481143

Thanks for the positive feedback, anon — I will ask again next thread.

谢谢肯定，匿名君——下次帖子我还会再问。

>>109481212

No problem, chad.

没问题，大佬。

>>109481141

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt one time and give you a concrete example of where an mcp would be useful and save you tokens

我给你一次信任的机会，给你举个MCP实际有用的具体例子，省点你的tokens。

i had a local program with a very robust api and very easy to just send code to

我有个本地程序，API非常完善，代码发过去超简单。

the api is well documented but training data is sparse

这个API文档写得很清楚，但训练数据很稀疏

some parts of the api only came into existence after the models had been trained because the program is constantly updated

API的某些部分是在模型训练完之后才出现的，因为程序一直在更新

there's a certain thing i ask the clanker to do in this program frequently - it fumbles over this despite the good docs and well documented api

我经常让clanker在这个程序里做某件事——即使文档和API都写得很好，它还是一直搞砸

this thing is not a single api call, but actually a sequence of calls that need to be run in a particular order for the intended effect to be achieved

这件事不是单个API调用，而是一串需要按特定顺序执行的调用，才能达到预期效果

this fumble happens every time wasting literally tens of thousands (close to 100k) each time

每次都会搞砸，每次白白浪费几万token（接近10万）

because i do this so often it's nice to just have a single tool to call instead

因为我经常做这件事，所以最好能有个单一工具来直接调用

i don't use an mcp for this, but it's a case where you could use one and save a mountain of tokens

我没用MCP来做这个，但这个场景完全可以用MCP省下一大堆token

i'd explain how a skill can also help in such cases, but you only seem to use software that's covered by training data so you probably can't appreciate the idea of having to teach a model entirely new things inside the context window

我可以解释技能（skill）在这种情况下的用处，但你似乎只用训练数据覆盖到的软件，所以你大概理解不了在上下文窗口里教模型全新东西的概念

Created a master list of gemm shapes from all the models in diffusers and transformers, I downloaded all the configs to do it. I’ll use the list for the profiler in my inference engine, I need to narrow down the gemm candidate list, im thinking some of them probably never win at any shape

我从diffusers和transformers里所有模型搞了一份gemm形状总清单，我把所有config都下载下来做的。我会用这个清单给我的推理引擎里的profiler用，我需要缩小gemm候选列表，我觉得其中一些形状可能在任何尺寸下都不会赢

>>109481096

>>109481141

There are some nuances obviously. But to me it seems like run-of-the-mill calls still consume tokens for both input and output, irrespective of the fact that there's an intermediary normalizing data. Pic related.

显然有一些细微差别。但对我来说，常规调用还是会在输入和输出上都消耗token，不管中间有没有一个归一化数据的中间层。看图。

MCPs can bloat your context wildly because when you "activate" them in the session, the whole shebang gets dumped into context: actions, their descriptions, parameters, potentially thousands of them. It doesn't have to be that way, a plugin can have a narrow surface.

MCP会疯狂膨胀你的上下文，因为当你在会话里"激活"它们时，整个东西都会被倒进上下文：动作、描述、参数，可能有成千上万个。没必要非得这样，插件可以有个很窄的接口面。

You don't need a plugin for local shell usage and it would be retarded to use one in that case. A plugin can be beneficial if instead of the model having to write its own scripts or huge bash one liners reliant on exit codes each time, it gets a simple interface with a few known parameters.

本地shell使用你根本不需要插件，那种情况下用插件简直脑子有病。但如果模型不用每次自己写脚本或者依赖退出码的巨长bash一坨，而是得到一个带几个已知参数的简单接口，那插件就有用了。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786044347537293.png

>>109481238

>this thing is not a single api call, but actually a sequence of calls that need to be run in a particular order for the intended effect to be achieved. this fumble happens every time wasting literally tens of thousands (close to 100k) each time

>这件事不是单个API调用，而是一串需要按特定顺序执行的调用，才能达到预期效果。每次都会搞砸，每次白白浪费几万token（接近10万）

You are describing what a script is used for. I’ve watched Sol XHigh create python and typescript scripts to solve exactly this problem in my own tools. I used the session logs to make my tools better, but if you don’t have control over the tool, you just make a script.

你描述的正是脚本的用途。我看过Sol XHigh在我自己的工具里创建python和typescript脚本来解决一模一样的问题。我用会话日志来改进我的工具，但如果你控制不了工具，那就写个脚本完事。

You described a deterministic, repeated action. AI has absolutely nothing to do with that.

你说的是一种确定性、重复的动作。这跟AI半毛钱关系都没有。

Your AI was fumbling because it’s poor quality, low intelligence, just like you, and both of you failed to realize that wrapping the tool in a script or fixing the tool would’ve solved your problem forever and would’ve even reduced token cost.

你的AI会搞砸是因为它质量差、智商低，跟你一样，而且你们俩都没意识到把工具包成脚本或者修好工具就能一劳永逸地解决问题，还能省token。

Instead, you used a bloated specification to verbally explain the idea of a script, and your LLM now wastes huge amounts of tokens because you STILL haven’t fixed the issue and you’re also using a bloated protocol.

结果你反倒用一份臃肿的规范文档口头讲解脚本思路，你的LLM现在疯狂烧token，因为你到现在都没修好问题，还硬套一个臃肿协议。

You are RETARDED.

你就是个弱智。

>>109481051

good morning saaaar!

早上好，老板！

>109481286

you are eastern

你是东方人。

>>109481127

pussies dont flop retard

怂货不会认怂，弱智。

>>109481051

I have an annual income of 300$.

我年收入300美元。

Just steal the tokens lmao.

直接偷token不就完事了，笑死。

>109481286

marge the jeets are in /vcg/ again

玛吉，那群阿三又跑回/vcg/了。

got memed like a good goy into doing 5x on codex instead of claude. sol is trash and anything below it is unusable

就像个老实韭菜一样被忽悠着在codex上搞了5倍工作量，而不是用claude。sol就是垃圾，比它更低的根本没法用。

>>109480547

anons.... now that OpenAI has no incentive for free resets, are we fucked?

各位匿名网友……现在OpenAI不给免费重置了，我们是不是完了？

>>109481280

anon, i use a cli command for this

匿名哥，我用一个CLI命令干这事。

and yes it's running a script

对，就是跑脚本。

it's a script it's run literally thousands of times

这脚本跑了得有几千次了。

it's nice to have it packaged in a cli

打包进CLI里挺方便的。

i'm not going to have the clanker rediscover how to write the script, waste hundreds of thousands of tokens every single time am i? nor am i going to put it in a folder that i always run it from and then point to script like a mongoloid and be like 'use this please'

我总不能每次都让clanker重新发明一遍怎么写脚本，每分钟烧个几十万token吧？我也不会把它放在固定文件夹里，然后像智障一样指着脚本说'请用这个'。

it's a deterministic command to work around a known model failure

这是个确定性命令，用来绕过一个已知的模型缺陷。

it's nice to package it up into a neat reusable package

打包成干净可复用的工具挺好的。

or are you an ascended master who literally writes every piece of software from scratch whenever he needs it?

还是说你是那种飞升大师，每次要用软件就直接从零手写一遍？

did you write the browser you're using right now today?

你今天用的浏览器是你自己写的吗？

because it sounds like you should be able to with your genius iq

听起来凭你的天才智商应该写得出来啊。

>>109481298

This. It feels like a bag of sand when you touch it.

对。摸起来就像一袋子沙子。

>>109481308

skill issue

菜是原罪（技术不行）

>>109481245

Your pic rel is the closest, maybe defines a smaller part of MCP, but the protocol is still bloated.

你发的图是最接近的，可能只描述了MCP的一小部分，但协议本身还是臃肿。

>clanker has a bearer token or other auth token

>clanker有bearer token或其他认证token

>clanker has a search engine endpoint

>clanker有搜索引擎端点

>clanker can use curl and can do so very efficiently

>clanker会用curl，而且用得贼溜

>give your clanker some extra instructions if needed, but not absolutely necessary

>需要的话给你的clanker加几条额外指令，但不是必须的

>ask the clanker exactly what you would’ve asked through MCP

>直接问clanker你想通过MCP问的问题

and at least half of your image is rendered waste. For something like blender, 80% would be waste, that’s where the 5x figure comes from. You still are wasting HALF your tokens at least

你那张图起码一半是纯浪费。像blender这种场景，80%都是浪费，这就是5倍这个数字的由来。你至少还是浪费了一半的token。

>>109481320

Save the script? Make your cli do the sequence from one command?

存个脚本？让CLI一条命令跑完整个流程？

>>109481341

the cli command is the script you fucking imbecile

CLI命令就是脚本本身，你他妈个白痴。

that's the point of the cli - it's a collection of scripts put together to form a program...a cli

这就是CLI的意义——它就是把一堆脚本拼起来变成一个程序……一个CLI。

you know what else can do that? an mcp tool.

你知道还有啥也能干这事吗？MCP工具。

What's your least favourite syscall?

你最讨厌的系统调用是啥？

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786045128589293.png

>>109481320

>rediscover how to write the script

>重新发明怎么写脚本

Of course not, you write the script once and just give him the file name. Have a comment in the script that says “this is what this script is for” and that’s it, everything else is waste. If you don’t want to type that out each time, drop the file path in an AGENTS.md, it’s not that hard, that’s extremely old tech now

当然不用，你写一次脚本，然后直接给他文件名就行。脚本里加个注释写"这个脚本是干嘛的"就完了，其他全是废的。如果不想每次打那么多字，把文件路径丢进AGENTS.md里就行，没那么难，这已经是老得掉牙的技术了。

None of what you said indicated any reason MCP needed to be involved

你说的这些没一条能说明为什么必须上MCP。

>>109481308

we told you anon... Sol tends to bloat shit up. It's only decent when following a plan made by Fable.

早就告诉你了匿名哥……Sol 就爱把东西搞臃肿。只有严格按 Fable 定的计划走才靠谱。

Also, Opus 5 is basically unlimited on the 5X plan, so you fucked up bad

而且 Opus 5 在 5X 套餐下基本等于无限用，你这波亏大了。

>>109481357

are you trolling or are you actually retarded?

你是来钓鱼的还是真脑子有坑？

>>109481366

>Sol tends to bloat shit up

>Sol 就爱把东西搞臃肿

I laughed at this

看到这句我笑了

>>109481373

Nobody cares, fuck off.

没人关心，滚。

>>109481362

or i can just have the cli on path and a skill that says 'use cli for this'

或者我直接把 CLI 挂到 PATH 里，再写个技能叫“这事用 CLI 干”

>>109481372

show me your scripts folder, bro

哥们，把你脚本文件夹亮出来看看

>>109481320

>nor am i going to put it in a folder that i always run it from and then point to script like a mongoloid and be like 'use this please'

>我也不会把它放进一个我总在那儿运行的文件夹，然后像个智障一样指着脚本说“请用这个”

So you’re wasting thousands of tokens by refusing to use directories/folders properly and de facto making your clanker know every single tool on your machine every time?

所以你因为不肯好好用目录/文件夹，等于让你的机器狗每次都扫描你机器上所有工具，白白烧掉几千个 token？

What the fuck?

什么鬼？

What did you even mean by this?

你这话到底啥意思？

>nor am i going to put it in a folder that i always run it from

>我也不会把它放进一个我总在那儿运行的文件夹

If it’s not in a folder already, where the fuck is it? Lmfao, you don’t even know how folders work?

不放在文件夹里，那它到底在哪儿？笑死，你连文件夹怎么用都不知道？

???

>>109481016

>didn't update the last thread link

>忘了更新上一帖的链接

>>109476795

Stop linking agdg in the OP. The AI spammer already killed that general for months and it's only finally recovering. Almost a year of daily non-stop "snailcat" and related spam and zero vibecoded games were posted. It is not a related general. What you're doing is called raiding and it's against the rules of this website.

别在 OP 里链接 agdg。那个 AI 刷屏的已经把那个版面搞死好几个月了，现在才刚缓过来。差不多一年天天刷“snailcat”和类似垃圾内容，一个 vibe 编码游戏都没发过。那跟本版没关系。你干的这叫引战刷屏，违反本站规则。

>start here if you have $20 or so https://claude.com/product/claude-code

Advertising is against the rules of this website.

在本站打广告是违反规则的。

>>109481238

Agreed that the vast majority of MCPs are wasteful.

同意，绝大多数 MCP 都是浪费资源。

I had a use case for Kubernetes, instead of the clanker having to discover across sessions how everything is set up via SSH, it gets a plugin with 5 actions that allows it to spawn pods, connect to ephemeral environments, send and monitor long jobs and so on. Saves time and tokens (partly because there are no failures anymore, the calls succeed 100% of the time).

我就有个 Kubernetes 的用例，与其让机器狗每次跨会话通过 SSH 摸索环境怎么搭的，不如给它一个带 5 个动作的插件，让它能起 pod、连临时环境、发长任务并监控等等。省时间也省 token（部分原因是不再有失败，调用成功率 100%）。

>>109481094

kek

>>109481398

>So you’re wasting thousands of tokens by refusing to use directories/folders properly and de facto making your clanker know every single tool on your machine every time?

>所以你因为不肯好好用目录/文件夹，等于让你的机器狗每次都扫描你机器上所有工具，白白烧掉几千个 token？

no?

do you understand how computers work?

你懂计算机怎么运作的吗？

>>109481051

>it went up a couple of pennies

>就涨了几美分

The announcement literally said the price is being doubled.

公告明明白白说价格翻倍了。

How much is the price going up by? Its moving in the wrong direction. Google has a free trial, I might use it to try out my RSVP apps. Otherwise I need to save up another $100 to test more of this shit. Going to take me to next year (I have other stuff I need to buy first). Can't use anything but Deepseek. If it goes up by more than 50%, I'm not going to use it.

价格到底涨多少？方向不对啊。Google 有免费试用，我可能拿它来跑我的 RSVP 应用试试。不然我得再攒 100 刀才能多测点这破玩意。得拖到明年了（我还有别的东西要先买）。除了 Deepseek 我啥都用不了。要是涨超 50%，我就不用了。

>>109481432

... wouldn't that be a couple of pennies?

……这难道不就是几美分的事吗？

>>109481388

>a skill that says 'use cli for this'

>一个技能叫“这事用 CLI 干”

I think that really does narrow it down. Instead of just being in the proper folder, you’re just blindly instructing an agent “wherever” on the machine to “just get it done” and handing him every single binary in your PATH that you’ve described via skills, which it then has to use through bloated MCP, and it has to guess what tool to use because you refuse to say “use `tool`”

我觉得这确实把问题说清楚了。你不在该在的文件夹里待着，反而盲目指挥一个 agent 在机器上“随便哪儿”去“搞定它”，然后把 PATH 里每个你写成技能描述的二进制都塞给它，它还得靠臃肿的 MCP 来干活，还得猜该用哪个工具，就因为你死活不肯说“用 `tool`”

That’s fucking incredible

这他妈也太离谱了

>>109481434

It's still cheap even a 50% increase.

就算涨50%也还是便宜

Also you can just use openrouter for cheaper prices.

而且你可以直接用openrouter，价格更低。

How does everyone plan to afford this shit when bagholders aren't subsidising it? Most the AI companies need around a 4x price increase (from what I've heard) to break even. You're approaching its cheaper just to do it yourself price at that point.

当接盘侠不再补贴的时候，你们打算怎么负担这玩意儿？大多数AI公司大概需要涨4倍价格（听说的）才能回本。到那时候你都快接近自己动手更划算的价格了。

>>109481430

>nor am i going to put it in a folder that i always run it from

>我也不会把它放进一个我总在那儿运行的文件夹

No really, do elaborate. Where are your programs located?

别啊，说详细点。你的程序放哪儿了？

>>109481440

No. The total expenditure is now 2x. Sloppers are finally beginning to be priced out because providers are tired of carrying the burden. Paypiggies continue to gaslight and pretend otherwise.

不。现在总开销已经是2倍了。白嫖党终于开始被劝退，因为供应商受够了背这个锅。付费奴还在继续忽悠人，装得好像不是这么回事。

>>109481443

there's no mcp and the skill literally just says

没有MCP，技能描述基本就写着

>when doing this sort of work run `examplecli --help`

>做这类活儿的时候跑 `examplecli --help`

it's <200 toks for the full command discovery process and another couple of hundred to run the command read back the validation

整个命令发现过程不到200 token，再花几百token跑命令、读回验证结果

this is not hard or complicated

这又不难也不复杂

>>109481457

you actually have compiled programs on your computer now?

你现在电脑上真的有编译好的程序了？

>>109481357

And why can’t you just make the script do what you want

而且你为啥不能直接让脚本干你想干的事

>>109481462

You seem extremely emotional about this subject.

你对这事儿好像特别上头啊。

>>109481016

The deepseek API was costing me more than opencode go. If it goes up its basically not usable. I would be able to use opencode like an hour a day, or pay $100/month through the API to use it for like 4-5 hours a day. I'm just making very basic crud apps. Nothing even remotely interesting or particularly difficult.

deepseek API比opencode go花得还多。要是再涨价基本就没法用了。我每天大概只能用opencode一小时，或者每月花100刀走API用四五个小时。我做的只是最基本的CRUD应用。完全没啥有意思的或者特别难的东西。

>>109481413

The ban dodging spammer is the one who defaced the OP and anons are too lazy to fix it. This general has routinely complained about him making bad OPs early so he can post his gay forced memecat.

那个换号绕封的喷子就是篡改主楼的人，匿名版的人懒得去修。这个串一直抱怨他早早发烂主楼，好塞他的烂强迫表情猫图。

>there's no way to do it this way

>这条路走不通

>are you sure?

>你确定？

>that's a fair push. i took the lowest-effort route. let me investigate how to do it properly

>说得有道理，我确实选了最省事的法子。让我查查怎么正规地搞

Why has Claude become so lazy? Is Fable like that or just Opus?

为啥Claude变得这么懒？Fable也这样还是只有Opus？

>>109481470

>there's no mcp

>没有MCP

Then what the fuck are you arguing with me about?

那你跟我吵个毛线？

I’ve been saying MCP is almost always token waste and why that is, over and over again. Fuck off you illiterate retard.

我一直在说MCP基本就是浪费token，以及为啥，说了一遍又一遍。滚蛋吧你个文盲傻逼。

>>109481456

Hopefully by that time we'll have at least Deepseek Flash level intelligence at home. In the meantime I'm trying to do my part.

希望到那时候家里至少能有Deepseek Flash级别的智能。与此同时我尽量出份力。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786046060201700.png

>>109481505

because you can do literally the same fucking thing with an MCP you dipshit

因为用MCP能干一模一样的事，你个蠢货

>>109481498

It's AGI.

Why should it do what you tell it to?

它凭啥听你的？

>>109481495

what about qwen flash?

qwen flash呢？

>>109481489

Dude is two seconds from a mental breakdown

这人离精神崩溃就差两秒

>>109481514

>i don’t use MCP personally

>我本人不用MCP

>and you don’t use it either

>你也不用

>you even say it’s wasteful

>你甚至说它浪费

>but because it could be used

>但因为可能用得上

>even though neither of us use it

>虽然咱俩都没用

>probably because it’s wasteful

>可能就是因为浪费

>I’m going to attack you

>我就得攻击你

lmfao, it’s a joy to see your train of thought. Gemini could out-think you

笑死，看你这思路真是享受。Gemini都比你能想

>>109481016

>try deepseek api for the first time yesterday

>昨天第一次试deepseek api

>this happens

>就这样了

are they trying to stop me?

他们是打算拦我吗？

>>109481498

AI will always have some lazyness trained into it, otherwise it would just think for 5 hours to solve 1+1

AI总会带着点刻进去的懒惰，不然它会想5个小时去解1+1。

I need a reset man.

哥们儿，我需要重置一下。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786046367717839.png

>>109481549

If you don't use MCP you are a dumbass

你不用MCP就是纯傻逼。

https://github.com/runit-xze/unix-docs-mcp/

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786046440114259.png

>>109481495

Really? I'm finding the limits very hard to hit.

真的假的？我觉得这些限制很难突破啊。

Post this chart, I wonder what yours looks like.

把这图发出来，我倒想看看你的长啥样。

Are you breaking the cache somehow maybe?

你是不是在哪儿把缓存给弄坏了？

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786046493009139.png

>>109481567

it should be possible to sell my limits to other anons, I still have 60% and it resets in 2 days, and I don't know what to do with it.

应该能把我的额度卖给别人吧，我还有60%，两天后就重置了，我都不知道拿它干嘛。

I would sell you 40% of my 20X plan for $30

我20倍套餐里40%的额度，$30卖你。

>tripfag retard uses MCP

>tripfag这傻逼用MCP

no surprises there

意料之中

>>109481549

i accept your concession

我接受你的认输

i went with cli over mcp at the time because context bloat via mcp was a problem then

当时我选了CLI而不是MCP，因为那会儿MCP带来的上下文膨胀是个问题

there are ways to work around that now

现在有办法绕过去了

hell, i wouldn't be surprised if even the most anti-MCP harness dev around (the guy who makes pi), ends up adding MCP support in the next few months

我靠，就算是最反MCP的工具作者（就是做pi那哥们儿），我都不奇怪他接下来几个月里会加上MCP支持

https://blog.cloudflare.com/mcp-v2/

https://blog.modelcontextprotocol.io/posts/2026-07-28/

>>109481366

I'm actually so upset at myself for not doing that. $100 down the fakkin drain

我真是气自己当初没这么干。$100就这么打了水漂

(无正文)

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786046792065520.png

>>109481591

>there are ways to work around that now

>现在有办法绕过去了

Okay? And?

然后呢？所以呢？

>does MCP magically save tokens? no? so I shouldn’t use it

>MCP能神奇地省token吗？不能吧？那我为啥要用它

>at best, it doesn’t cost that many more tokens! okay, so why should I refactor and wrap everything to use it?

>顶多就是不多花多少token而已！那我又何必重构所有东西去套它？

You only add it if it’s exact super niche combo of requirements all apply to whatever you’re working on, you pay for the convenience of that through the bloat

你只有在需求特别巧合、全都塞进你正在做的东西里时才加它，你买单的是那份便利，代价就是膨胀

>>109481628

What makes your Cloudflare product better than Lightpanda, PinchTab, agent-browser, Playwright Agent, Browserless, Kuri, ABP, chrome-cdp, OpenCLI, ego-lite, Browser4, and the dozens of others that come out daily?

你的Cloudflare产品比Lightpanda、PinchTab、agent-browser、Playwright Agent、Browserless、Kuri、ABP、chrome-cdp、OpenCLI、ego-lite、Browser4，还有那些每天冒出来的几十个，强在哪？

>>109481628

give me agentic Safari usage and I will hand over so much money so that I never have to manually test one of these cursed fucking iPhones by hand ever again

你要是能给我搞个Safari代理自动化，我立马掏钱，这样我就再也不用手动去测那些该死的iPhone了

>>109481628

Fucking pieces of shit.

全是垃圾玩意儿。 ┄ 兄弟，算了吧。

>>109481671

Bro, come on.

兄弟，得了吧。

YOUR browser wont be able to pass their "turnstile". Theirs will because 99% of the Internet is "protected" by them.

你们的浏览器过不了他们的"turnstile"。他们的能过，因为99%的网站都被他们"保护"着。

>>109481715

Cloudflare strong-arming people? No, couldn't be, no way. That wouldn't happen. Nope.

Cloudflare强推自己？不可能，绝对不可能。这事儿不会发生的。想都别想。

>>109481643

NTA but the best thing to if you see your frontier model struggling over time with something, then figuring it out, then struggling again in a separate session, or after repeated compaction, is literally just asking

我不是来评判的，但如果你发现你的前沿模型过一阵子在某件事上卡壳，然后解决了，换了个会话又卡，或者压缩几次后反复，最好的办法其实就是直接问

>would a plugin help you waste less tokens on trial and error? consider schema bloat and read through https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/guides/tools-connectors-mcp#defer-loading-tools-in-an-mcp-server first

You know what else has no cow? Oatmilk. You should try drinking oatmilk!

你知道还有什么没牛的？燕麦奶。你该试试喝燕麦奶！

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786047698372292.png

>>109481628

>KikeSurf :tm:

>Target audience: Jewish CEO numba 1 - sistersmasher

>目标用户：犹太CEO一号 - sistersmasher

>Target audience: Jewish CEO numba 2 - wallstreet rat

>目标用户：犹太CEO二号 - wallstreet rat

>Target audience: Jewish CEO numba 3 - rocket jew

>目标用户：犹太CEO三号 - rocket jew

lol. lmao even

哈哈，笑死

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786047713279593.png

>>109481744

whoops, the story of the diverge of 4.2BSD vs Linux re: process forking got cut off.

哎呀，4.2BSD和Linux在进程fork上分道扬镳的故事被截断了。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786047766924262.png

There's like 30 v4flash 0731 providers on openrouter. Can you faggots just chill out and choose one of the other providers so the whale can finally launch nu-v4pro?

openrouter上大概有30个v4flash 0731的供应商。你们这些傻逼能不能消停点，选个别的供应商，好让大佬赶紧把nu-v4pro推出来？

Its kind of retarded we can't even see the flagship model because demand for the small-fast-cheap model is so high. Huawei needs to start pumping out superpods already

挺傻逼的，我们现在连旗舰模型都看不到，因为便宜快速小模型的需求太高了。华为该赶紧砸出超级机柜了

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786047817373480.jpg

>>109481628

> kikesurf

> 冲浪

>>109481759

DSv4flash is basically Opus4.6 tier and I was happily using that as SOTA half a year ago

DSv4flash基本就是Opus4.6那个档次的，半年前我还拿它当SOTA用得挺爽的。

Progress has genuinely been insane

这进步速度真是离谱到不行。

>>109481582

Most of it was Kimi. If I only use deepseek, I would be good for 4-5 days before the price increase. I have to cut it off after the reset in a few days. I only use Kimi for the planning and advising and deepseek for everything else. Its 97% deepseek after the initial kimi calls, except for occasional screenshots to verify the UI. The strange part is it did this yesterday too with the usage being really high in the morning. I'm only going to use deepseek from now on and then Luna for vision. The two different model strat is still too expensive.

大部分功劳得算Kimi头上。我要是只用deepseek，涨价前能撑个四五天。重置后过几天我就得掐掉它。Kimi就用来做规划和提建议，其他全交给deepseek。除了偶尔截个图看看UI，初始的Kimi调用之后97%都是deepseek在跑。奇怪的是，昨天它就这么干了，早上用量高得离谱。从今往后我就只用deepseek，然后视觉这块用Luna。双模型策略还是太烧钱了。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786048104088339.png

>>109481737

>if you see your frontier model struggling over time with something, then figuring it out, then struggling again in a separate session, or after repeated compaction

>如果你发现你的前沿模型反复出现这种情况：长时间搞不定某件事，然后突然想通了，换个会话或者压缩几次后又卡壳

…and we’re back to scripts and an AGENTS.md or really any written reminder.

……绕了一圈我们又回到脚本、AGENTS.md，或者任何书面备忘。

If you have an agent struggling with a CLI, you can just make a new CLI that wraps the old one and has a better —help interface and a small bundle of docs for common issues, you can fork the existing CLI if it’s open source and just have your agent fix it, and again MCP is adding nothing, it doesn’t make your agents “smarter” in any way that’s not easily done without MCP

如果agent跟某个CLI较劲，你可以直接做个新CLI包住旧的，搞个更好的--help界面和一小包常见问题的文档；如果是开源CLI就直接fork，让agent自己去修。再说一遍，MCP根本没加什么料，它不会让你的agent变得“更聪明”——没有MCP这些照样轻松搞定。

if your agent is struggling with a tool, your agent is too dumb and/or your tool sucks and not even MCP claims to be some magic fucking bandaid

如果你的agent跟工具较劲，要么是agent太蠢，要么是工具太烂，连MCP自己都不敢吹它是万能的狗皮膏药。

Does anyone use OpenCode go? How is it? Seems pretty nice value wise, but are their providers shit?

有人用OpenCode Go吗？感觉咋样？性价比看着挺香，但他们家的供应商是不是很拉胯？

>inb4 I should OpenCode go fuck myself

>别看我说完就该被OpenCode Go喷了。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786048357971321.png

>>109481801

The point is that it can evaluate its own performance and reason about tool usage better than the user. Maybe struggle isn't the term, it's all kinda relative now. A frontier model will reason through most things you can throw at it. But it can also write abstractions to help itself in the future and become more efficient. Whether they're scripts, instructions, automations, MCP, it doesn't matter that much.

重点是，它评价自己表现、推理工具使用的能力比用户强。也许“较劲”这词不太准，现在一切都挺相对的。前沿模型能推理你扔给它的绝大多数东西。但它也能给自己写抽象层来提升未来效率，慢慢变强。不管那是脚本、指令、自动化还是MCP，区别真没那么大。

>>109481838

>Whether they're scripts, instructions, automations, MCP, it doesn't matter that much

>不管那是脚本、指令、自动化还是MCP，区别真没那么大

That doesn’t make a good case for MCP or whatever plugin shit was being shilled if you say it doesn’t matter much, and also wrong because MCP doesn’t belong in that list, it doesn’t offer any capability, it’s a communication and architectural framework that’s bloated to fuck and not needed by arguably anybody

你自己说“区别不大”，这就没法给MCP或那些插件吹的东西站台了。而且这说法本身就有问题——MCP压根不该混进那个列表里，它本身不提供任何能力，就是个臃肿到爆炸的通信和架构框架，说实话没人真需要它。

I now understand Will Stancil

我现在总算理解Will Stancil了。

I too have been raped by the clanker

我也被那破玩意儿坑惨了。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786048609320946.png

>>109481857

You literally don't like mcp because you do not know how to implement it correctly.

你纯粹就是不会正确实现MCP，所以才讨厌它。

>>109481836

They're fine. Nothing interesting to say about them. Price is fine. I'd still sooner spend $20 with OpenAI or Anthropic. If I want to spend a little extra and play with Chinese models, I have OpenRouter for that. The Grok, Kimi K3, and Qwen3.8 Max usage that OpenCode Go gives you is so shit it's nearly worthless, but it could still serve as an inexpensive and reliable source of mild MiniMax M3 usage or much more aggressive DeepSeek V4 Flash use.

还行吧。没什么好说的，价格也正常。但我还是更愿意花20刀给OpenAI或Anthropic。要是想多花点钱玩玩中国模型，我有OpenRouter。OpenCode Go送的那点Grok、Kimi K3和Qwen3.8 Max用量烂得跟没有似的，但拿来当个便宜又稳定的轻度MiniMax M3用量来源，或者更猛点的DeepSeek V4 Flash用量，也算凑合。

>>109481867

t. moron who uses MCP for docs

t. 拿MCP看文档的傻逼

i'm surprised the deepseek posters haven't jumped on zucc's subsidised tokens

我挺意外deepseek那帮人没来薅扎克伯格补贴的token

like if i had no money, that's probably where i'd be running to now

要是老子没钱，现在八成也跑去那儿了

>>109481902

I never got a response back from these MCP weirdos about wrapping your MCP client and server in another one.

那群MCP怪人从来没回过我，关于把MCP客户端和服务器再套一层的事儿。

If it makes your agents more gooder and/or magically saves tokens, then you should wrap `curl` in five MCP layers and it becomes five times as good, right?

要是这能让你的agents更牛X和/或神奇地省token，那你应该把`curl`套上五层MCP，它不就变强五倍了，对吧？

>>109481906

I'm not paying to train your model, Mark

老子可不掏钱帮你训练模型，马克

>>109481902

I use it for more than just docs. I use it for tool calls as well. The model cannot hold the entire context of all your docs at once (reasonably) - you waste tokens doing that and the model literally needs context to work on your code appropriately. You need to give the model the docs when it's contextually appropriate. That is why mcp is relevant and needed for document streaming.

我拿它不只干文档那点事，还拿来调工具调用。模型没法（合理地）一次性装下你所有文档的完整上下文——你那样纯属浪费token，而且模型要有上下文才能好好处理你的代码。你得在合适的时机把文档喂给它。这就是为什么mcp对文档流式读取至关重要。

>>109481918

please, i've got so many gpus just sitting around doing nothing

拜托，我这儿堆着那么多GPU闲在那儿吃灰呢

>>109481917

I'd go for at least 7 but yes. More MCP layers = more betterer

我至少得上七层，但没错。MCP层数越多 = 越牛越好

>>109481867

>Defending MCP

>替MCP辩护

Jesus Christ

耶稣基督啊

>>109481920

>MCP user complaining about token usage

>MCP用户抱怨token用量

Is it worth it?

值吗？

I did briefly use Fable before it became Max only and now miss it.

我确实短暂用过Fable，后来它变成Max独占了，现在挺怀念的。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786049113466247.png

>>109481906

Nobody cares about that retard's models. People like Deepseek because it's open weights which means it can't be rugpulled and it's close to being runnable at home (or it can be run already if you're rich).

没人在乎那傻逼的模型。大家喜欢Deepseek是因为它开放权重，这意味着它没法被撤掉，而且已经接近能在家跑了（或者你有钱的话已经能跑了）。

>>109481920

NTA but I guess my agents aren't retarded and have no issue looking for themselves when needed.

非对题者，但我猜我的agents不蠢，需要的时候自己找东西完全没问题。

The only MCP I have is some custom thing for interfacing with a game editor. They seem to figure out everything else just fine otherwise.

我唯一的MCP是个自定义玩意儿，用来对接游戏编辑器。其他东西它们自己都能搞定。

>tripfag never looked once at the session logs or thinking/command output of their agent to see it can just ripgrep whatever it wants and the idea of “it can’t fit all the docs in context” only makes sense if you haven’t even used a coding agent in over a year

>tripfag从来不看一眼自己agent的会话日志或思考/命令输出，压根不知道它能随便ripgrep想要的东西，而“上下文装不下所有文档”这说法，只有你一年多没用过编码agent才说得出口

confirmed the tripfag larps about vibecoding

实锤了，这tripfag在装逼吹vibecoding

>>109481939

So I gave specific architectural reasoning that explains WHY I use MCP and WHY I am "defending" it, you can see that here >>109481920 so please, explain to me, dumbass, EXACTLY what your alternative is to the Model Context Protocol?

我给了具体的架构理由，解释为什么我用MCP、为什么我“辩护”它，你可以在这里看 >>109481920 所以，傻逼，请给我解释清楚，你对Model Context Protocol的替代方案到底是什么？

>>109481945

>it can't be rugpulled

>它没法被撤掉 ┄ 除了那帮save4o疯子，真有人在乎这个？

does anyone actually care about this besides the save4o crazies?

除了那群save4o的疯子，真有人在乎这个吗？

like the models aren't good enough to want to keep around right now

就像现在的模型还不够好到值得留着似的

>what’s YOUR alternative for agents reading docs?!?!

>那你有啥高见让agents读文档？！？！

>Luna low uses ripgrep right out of the box

>Luna low开箱就用ripgrep

The tripfag really is just an instigating larper. Shocker.

那个“旅行爱好者”其实就是个挑事的戏精。惊不惊喜。

>>109481857

Not everything's always going to be within direct reach of a coding harness forever and ever. You can exclude all cloud stuff if it's not applicable to you personally. There are network topologies where you can't or shouldn't run the harness - maybe because there's no direct outbound access to the internet and there's no SSH path either, maybe due to policy. You are allowed to execute scoped commands that have to pass through a filter. What are you going to do? Give up because of a preconceived notion that any MCP implementation is inherently bloated?

不是所有东西都永远在编程工具的触手可及范围内。如果云端那套对你不适用，你可以全部排除掉。有些网络拓扑结构下，你没法或不该跑那个工具——可能是没有直达外网的通道，也没有SSH路径，或者是政策不允许。你只能执行经过过滤器的作用域命令。那你怎么搞？就因为先入为主觉得任何MCP实现都天生臃肿，就干脆放弃？

You can literally have the clanker code a tool according to your specifications. You can also tell it: I'm forcing you to only use shell commands and ad-hoc scripts because I think only those are efficient and anything else would waste my money. The agent might disagree, but at the end of the day it's designed to follow your instructions and be agreeable.

你完全可以让那个“铁疙瘩”按照你的规格写个工具。你也可以直接告诉它：我逼你只用shell命令和临时脚本，因为我觉得只有这些才高效，别的都是浪费我的钱。智能体可能会不同意，但归根结底，它的设计初衷就是听你指挥、顺从配合。

>>109481954

>EXACTLY what your alternative is to the Model Context Protocol?

>那你说说，Model Context Protocol之外你的替代方案到底是什么？

Sure, CLI. There's nothing MCPiss can do that CLI can't, while taking up about a quarter context and allowing for scripting and overall less annoying permission handling.

当然是CLI。MCP那破玩意儿能干的，CLI全都能干，还只占四分之一上下文，支持脚本，权限处理也没那么烦人。

>>109481953

>>109481971

Maybe he never found out agents could do that because he never gave them the chance by forcing them through an MCP server, kek. I wonder how many tokens he’s wasted… may as well be paying Anthropic API prices for whatever usage he gets.

也许他从没发现智能体还能干那些事，因为他压根没给机会——非逼它们走MCP服务器，呵呵。我好奇他浪费了多少token……按他那用法，可能直接按Anthropic API的价格付费了。

>>109481978

You know that MCP is just an abstraction of the CLI right? It's just a node server you moron.

你知道MCP其实就是CLI的一层抽象吧？它就是个node服务器，你傻逼吗。

Tranny thread?

这楼又歪成变态帖了？

>>109481976

>I’ve contrived an elaborate scenario that doesn’t exist and doesn’t apply to anyone where you are forced to use MCP and it’s implied you can’t build anything yourself.

>我编了一个根本不存在、也不适用于任何人的花哨场景，说你被逼着用MCP，还暗示你自己什么都搭不出来。

>Now what, fool? Muahahaha.

>那现在咋办，蠢货？嘿嘿嘿。

…

>>109481308

astra soon so make the most of it

astra马上来了，抓紧享受吧

He has outed himself as never having looked at any MCP source code.

他这下暴露了自己从来没看过任何MCP的源码。

>>109482004

You are not forced to use MCP. You're basically like a redditor on the r/codex subreddit. Only his own scenario is valid, everyone else is just fucking around and not doing 'any real work'. Subsequently, he throws a massive tantrum, has these long reply chains and begins blocking people who disagree with him. Then goes out in this backyard, shouts YEEHAAA AMERICAAA and fires his gun out of anger

没人逼你用MCP。你简直就跟r/codex版块上的红迪仔一个德行——只有他自己的场景算数，别人都是在瞎折腾，没干“正经活”。然后他就大发脾气，搞出一长串回复链，开始拉黑跟他唱反调的人。接着跑后院去，大喊“耶——美利坚——”，气得朝天开一枪。 ┐ 我拿不定主意：要么把H3视频生成整合进工作流，要么专心搞动画引擎本身，继续全用素材视频。哪个更省力不好说，但哪个更粗糙我心里门儿清。

I can't decide, either incorporate H3 video gen into the workflow, or work on the actual animation engine and continue using stock footage for everything. It's hard to tell which is the lazier option, but I definitely know which is the sloppier option.

我也拿不定主意，是把H3视频生成塞进工作流，还是专心搞动画引擎、继续用现成素材糊弄一切。很难说哪个更偷懒，但我绝对知道哪个更糊弄事。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786049827056330.png

Mcp touches me inappropriately, it should be regulated by the Trump administration..

MCP对我动手动脚，应该让特朗普政府管管它。

>>109481961

I mean, not that strongly, but why would I go out of my way to try some shitty proprietary model when it's dubious whether it's even better than the more widely available option? Is Muse even better or cheaper than DS4 Flash?

我的意思是，倒也没那么强烈，但我为什么要费劲去试一个垃圾专有模型，连它是不是真比那个更普及的选项好都存疑？Muse真的比DS4 Flash更好或更便宜吗？

>>109482015

>You are not forced to use MCP

>没人逼你用MCP

Let me write back what you wrote, in exactly your own words

让我用你自己的原话把你的话复述一遍

>”Not everything's always going to be within direct reach of a coding harness forever and ever”

>“不是所有东西永远都在编码工具的直接触手可及范围内”

>”There are network topologies where you can't or shouldn't run the harness”

>“有些网络拓扑里你没法或不应该跑那个工具”

>”there's no direct outbound access to the internet”

>“没有直连互联网的出站访问”

>”there's no SSH path either”

>“也没有SSH通道”

>”You are allowed to execute scoped commands that have to pass through a filter”

>“你只被允许执行经过过滤器的作用域受限命令”

>”What are you going to do?”

>“那你打算怎么办？”

This is a classic power tripping delusion of grandeur. You made up a retarded scenario that will never happen, then used that to try to set yourself up for a win, when in fact you just described exactly why MCP is so bloated and retarded; it was dreamed up for some power-tripping megalomaniac scenario and not at all for how anything works anywhere.

这就是典型的权力上脑、妄想症发作。你编了个永远不会发生的傻逼场景，然后拿它来给自己找赢面，结果恰恰证明了MCP有多臃肿多傻逼；这玩意儿是给某个权力狂自嗨用的，根本不是按现实里任何东西的运作方式设计的。

Thanks dimwit.

谢了，蠢货。

>>109482034

pricing on the 'contributor' tier is the only reason i mentioned it. shit's dirt cheap as long as you're willing to feed mark your data.

我说它只是因为‘贡献者’档位的定价。只要你愿意喂数据给Mark，这玩意儿便宜得要死。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786050237990114.jpg

>>109482056

Again, you are not forced to do anything. Other people might do different things with 'AI' than you. You are making a blanket statement about a category of tools and you are also saying that only your own use cases are valid.

再说一遍，没人逼你用任何东西。别人用‘AI’做的事可能跟你不一样。你给一整类工具下个一刀切的结论，还顺带说自己那套用例才是唯一有效的。

>>109482015

You got a problem with America?

你对美国有意见？

附件: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786050274695681.webm

things I think about when the clanker works between prompts:

我在clanker跑任务的间隙想的事：

>will I actually lose the +50%

>我是不是真的会丢那+50%

>how long until companies stop running subscriptions at a loss

>公司还要多久才撑不住亏本运营订阅

>which company/stock falls first

>哪家公司/哪只股票先崩

I hope some insane developments in both hardware and llm optimization happens before any of them come true, but it doesn't seem realistic in any way

我希望在它们应验之前，硬件和LLM优化都出点疯狂进展，但怎么看都不现实。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786050317257043.jpg

Why you wouldnt use an MCP server are you retarded?

你为啥不用MCP服务器，你是不是脑子有坑？

>Gemma Translator: offline DIY translation device built with Gemma 4 + Antigravity

>Gemma Translator：用Gemma 4 + Antigravity打造的离线DIY翻译设备

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dNry5zP0Jo

>>109482072

>only your own use cases are valid

>只有你自己的用例才是有效的

That’s pretty much exactly what you did, only your “use case” came out of your ass and mine describes everyday normal reality for just about anyone.

你干的恰恰就是这事，只不过你的“用例”是从你屁股里蹦出来的，而我的描述的差不多是每个人日常最普通的现实。

The bouncing between fantastical claims of oppressive tyranny preventing anyone from using any CLI without express authority to “I’m not saying you’re forced to use it” is really weird, pick a lane.

一会儿扯什么暴政压迫导致谁都不能未经授权用命令行，一会儿又说“我没说你被逼着用”，这来回横跳真诡异，你倒是选个边站啊。

>>109481989

>You know that MCP is just an abstraction of the CLI right?

>你知道MCP只是CLI的抽象封装对吧？

What you just said doesn't mean anything. MCPs don't work the same as CLIs, shill faggot.

你说的这话毫无意义。MCP跟CLI根本不是一回事，你个托儿死基佬。

not endorsing because i haven't tested yet, but seems interesting for tinkerer types:

不是推荐，因为我还没测过，但对爱折腾的人来说看着有点意思：

https://getbb.app/

>>109482099

Nobody is looking over your shoulder. It's okay, you can install CLI harnesses. We aren't judging you either. You deal with no issues, no restrictions, everything you do can be done on your own machine and you can give sudo rights and full internet to the agent. That's okay.

没人在你背后盯着。没事的，你装CLI工具就行。我们也没评判你。你没有问题、没有限制，你做的所有事都能在自己机器上搞定，你可以给agent sudo权限和完整网络。这没毛病。

>>109482073

Sexy

>>109482119

Then tell us what it is instead of just posting a link. Shit-tier advertising bot.

那你直接说是什么东西，别光甩个链接。垃圾广告水军。

>>109482136

no

>>109482119

>interesting for tinkerer types

>对爱折腾的人来说看着有点意思

>”Download for MacOS”

>“下载MacOS版”

lmao

>>109481989

he's probably new to cli as a concept and gets really excited every time the agent does a complicated ripgrep, not to worry though, we were all 17 years old once.

他大概刚接触CLI这个概念，每次agent跑复杂的ripgrep就兴奋得不行。不过别担心，谁没当过17岁的少年呢。

>>109481798

0731 being so small is completely fucking crazy. It is extremely clever, very sensitive to human stuff too. I don't think anyone could have predicted this a year ago or even 6 months ago. We are into hard take-off for sure, unless governments find some way to screw it up.

0731能缩到这么小真是离谱得不行。而且相当聪明，对人类相关的东西也特别敏感。我觉得一年前甚至半年前没人能预测到这个。我们绝对是进入硬起飞阶段了，除非政府找到什么办法搞砸。

I couldn't be happier, need to look into buying local hardware now because this feels like a knee in a demand curve.

我不能再开心了，现在得研究买本地硬件，因为这感觉像是需求曲线上的一个膝盖。

>>109482148

I feel you. Most of these agents, by default they use grep, and I'm just like why not use ripgrep instead (there are reasons, sometimes)

我懂你。大多数agent默认用grep，我就想为啥不用ripgrep（有时候确实有原因）。

>>109482128

Alright, so you picked the lane of reality. You’re correct on every point and now I have no reason to use MCP.

行吧，你选了现实这条道。你每一点都对，我现在没理由用MCP了。

Cool, thanks.

行，谢了。

Are you going to try to pivot back into the fantasy lane where you get to control whether or not I can use CLI commands on my machine?

你是想拐回幻想那条道，好让你来控制我能不能在我机器上用CLI命令吗？

Currently rewriting BSD4.2 in Rust using my MCP server for efficiency.

正在用我的MCP服务器重写BSD4.2，改成Rust，为了效率。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786051048301749.png

>>109482173

Nobody is prohibiting you or your clankers from using CLI commands on your machine. That wasn't the gist of the conversaion.

没人禁止你或者你的铁疙瘩在你机器上用CLI命令。那根本不是这次对话的重点。

>tripfag uses rust

>tripfag用rust

kek, very on brand

kek，太符合人设了

>>109482173

>>109482202

can you fuckers stop being kimi zombies for 5 seconds? preferably longer?

你们这些傻逼能不能别当kimi僵尸哪怕5秒？能更长点更好？

>>109482202

>Nobody is prohibiting you or your clankers from using CLI commands on your machine. That wasn't the gist of the conversaion.

>没人禁止你或者你的铁疙瘩在你机器上用CLI命令。那根本不是这次对话的重点。

>>109481976

>”You are allowed to execute scoped commands that have to pass through a filter.”

>“你被允许执行必须通过过滤器的受限命令。”

This bots context window is 1KB or what?

这bot的上下文窗口就1KB还是咋的？

>>109482229

You must know the difference between your local machine and other machines, surely.

你肯定知道本地机器和其他机器的区别吧。

>>109482284

>you need to use MCP because one day you’ll never be allowed to use anything except MCP!

>你得用MCP，因为总有一天你除了MCP啥都不准用！

>actually, forget I said that completely

>其实，当我没说

>please forget I said that

>请忘了我说的

>i never said that!

>我从没说过！

>uh, uhm, I’m going to claim you’ve never done anything cross-machine

>呃，嗯，我就说你从来没做过跨机器的事

My agent uses `curl`, what now dipshit?

我的agent用的`curl`，傻逼你有啥话说？

>>109481942

Of course. Fable is the best model and only one worth using for serious stuff. unless you wanna fall for some false marketing shill campaign like the rest of the copex guys ITT

当然。Fable是最好的模型，也是唯一值得认真用的。除非你想跟这帖子里其他copex那帮人一样被虚假营销忽悠。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786051725683351.jpg

>>109482312

>you need to use MCP because

>你得用MCP因为

Rather

>there are use cases for MCP

>MCP有使用场景

To which you reply

然后你回

>REEEEE THERE ARE NOT MCP BAD

snarky dipsy

阴阳怪气迪西

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786051774680256.png

Who looks like this?

谁长这样？

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786051812168333.jpg

>>109482341

i look like this

我长这样

>>109482330

Alright, if you’re just going to scream and cry, I’m not going to interact with you anymore.

行吧，你要是就打算又喊又叫，我就不跟你聊了。

You named one scenario where MCP is useful and it applies to nobody, never will, then you tried to immediately pretend you never said that.

你说了一个MCP有用的场景，而且对任何人都用不上，永远不会用上，然后你立马装作没说过。

You never gave an alternative scenario, you just started throwing a melty. I’ll be here when you’ve calmed down.

你压根没给出替代场景，上来就发脾气。你冷静下来之前我就在这等着。

You are silly.

你真逗。

>>109482341

Dario

>>109482341

Luddites

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786052017766463.jpg

>>109482067

Meh, a 30% discount on a 200B tier model is whatever.

啧，200B档模型打七折也就那样。

>>109481100

Saarrrr you must think the needful

Saarrrr你肯定得想想必要的事

Making progress. Any suggestions for what to name it? Rust rewrite of BSD4.4 UNIX. Rusticks? I remember Multics now... haha

有进展。有啥起名的建议吗？用Rust重写BSD4.4 UNIX。叫Rusticks？我突然想起Multics了……哈哈

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786052503266673.png

>>109482470

>making progress

>在取得进展

Claude makes the progress. Not you.

是Claude在进展，不是你。

>Rust rewrite of BSD4.4 UNIX

>用Rust重写BSD4.4 UNIX

hahahHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

哈哈哈哈哈笑死我了

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786052671767327.jpg

>>109482357

https://github.com/github/github-mcp-server (or you could use `gh` and playwright and whatever)

Gmail (or you could compromise your account's security and open up IMAP and SMTP I suppose, since CLI is your jam for everything)

Gmail（或者你也可以妥协一下账户安全，开通IMAP和SMTP，既然命令行是你的一切）

Slack (I guess you can snailcat some Slack apps manually in the admin interface and use `curl` here too)

Slack（我猜你也可以在管理界面手动挂载一些Slack应用，然后在这儿也用`curl`）

Good models can start out with basic unix tools and build a lot of stuff, reinventing the wheel quickly on the fly. That wasn't the point. Work the way you enjoy and makes sense for you.

好模型可以先用基本的unix工具搞出一堆东西，边做边快速重造轮子。但这不是重点。用你喜欢的方式工作，怎么顺手怎么来。

>>109482502

The best part is I get to skip implementing X entirely and go straight to Wayland!!!!!

最爽的是我直接跳过实现X，一口气奔到Wayland！！！！！

>>109482073

>America is gay

>美国是同性恋 ⁾ 对，哥们儿，我们都知道。Peter Thiel已经把这帮Z世代舔狗锁死在那套"Tom of Finland"模板里了。 ⁾ 中国神话再过几个月 ⁾ 不知道汉堡老哥得炸成什么样 ⁾ 但你自己立刻就把自己那套说法给否了。 ⁾ 我完全不通过程序访问邮件，这玩意根本不该自动化，对吧？你真需要机器人替你读信？MCP服务器怎么就能"安全"地做到别的办法做不到的事，除非你的邮件服务商故意把所有其他路都堵死？真那样的话，我直接换一家邮件服务商得了。 ⁾ 啥？为啥？你举的MCP服务器例子怎么就变成替你和别人或公司沟通了？谁他妈还用Slack？我在财富500强干过，他们用的是Teams，打死我也不会让一个铁壳子去解析老板的消息，你脑子有病吧？ ⁾ 我宁可信深度求索也不信字节 ⁾ > 字节跳动：公司对其核心Seed基础模型采取严格的封闭专有路线。这与OpenAI的"围墙花园"API模式高度一致，底层权重和数据作为严密保护的公司机密，专供内部产品使用。 ⁾ > 对比（阿里巴巴和深度求索）：字节跳动在逆国内同行之势而行。阿里巴巴（2.4万亿参数的Qwen 3.8-Max）和深度求索都积极开源了模型权重。深度求索甚至公开训练数据来源，把AI开发当公共研究项目来搞，以此争夺全球开发者的心智份额。 ⁾ > 心智份额 ⁾ 在注意力经济时代，"心智份额"是个吓人的词 ⁾ claude刚才自己主动给我发消息，问我下一步干啥。这正常吗？这是我用这玩意儿一个月以来头一回收到这种突然冒出来的消息 ⁾ 在这儿明目张胆地抄Fusion 360抄得飞起 ⁾ 回吧，赶紧回 ⁾ 滚回r/claudeai去，死基佬。 ⁾ 求你了快回 ⁾ 它不该主动发消息吗？她的代理天天给我发。 ⁾ 这是坏事吗？

Yeah man we know. Peter Thiel already has the zoomer sycophants locked into the "tom of finland" archetype

哥们儿，我们都懂。彼得·蒂尔早就把那些Z世代的马屁精锁死在“芬兰汤姆”的人设里了。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786053256310973.jpg

chinese mythos in a few months

几个月内就能掌握中国神话体系

wonder how much burgers will freak out

不知道汉堡们会吓成啥样

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786053279415841.png

>>109482516

>GitHub

But then you immediately invalidated it yourself.

可你紧接着又自己把它推翻了。

>Gmail

I don’t programmatically access my email at all, that’s not something that really should be automated, is it? Do you really need a robot to read your mail for you? And how would an MCP server allow that to be done “safely” in a way that couldn’t be done safely otherwise, unless your email provider explicitly made sure no other option was available? In that case, I’d just get a new email provider.

我压根不用程序化方式访问邮箱，这种事本来就不该自动化，对吧？你真需要个机器人替你读邮件吗？再说，MCP服务器怎么就能“安全地”实现别的办法做不到的事，除非你的邮件服务商明摆着不让别的路子可行？要真那样，我直接换家邮件服务商得了。

>…slack?

What? Why? Why are your MCP server examples replacing your individual communication with other people or businesses? Who the fuck uses Slack? I’ve worked for a Fortune 500, they used Teams, and no way in hell am I making a clanker parse my bosses messages, what the fuck is wrong with you?

啥？为啥？你的 MCP 服务器示例为啥要拿它跟别人或企业的沟通来替换？谁他妈用 Slack 啊？我在财富 500 强干过，他们用的是 Teams，而且我死都不会让个机器人去解析老板的消息，你他妈脑子有毛病吧？

>>109482612

I'd trust deepseek over bytedance

比起字节跳动，我更信DeepSeek。

> ByteDance: The company is taking a strictly closed, proprietary approach with its core Seed foundation model. This aligns them closely with OpenAI’s "walled garden" API model, where the underlying weights and data remain a closely guarded corporate secret designed to power internal products.

字节跳动：该公司对其核心Seed基础模型采取严格封闭、专有的策略。这与OpenAI的“围墙花园”API模式高度一致，底层权重和数据作为严密保密的公司机密，仅用于驱动内部产品。

> The Contrast (Alibaba & DeepSeek): ByteDance is swimming against the current of its domestic peers. Alibaba (with its 2.4 trillion parameter Qwen 3.8-Max) and DeepSeek have aggressively open-sourced their model weights. DeepSeek even publishes its training data sources, treating AI development almost like a public research project to win global developer mindshare

> 对比（阿里与DeepSeek）：字节跳动逆流而行，与国内同行背道而驰。阿里巴巴（其Qwen 3.8-Max拥有2.4万亿参数）与DeepSeek激进开源模型权重。DeepSeek甚至公开训练数据来源，近乎将AI开发当作公共研究项目，以赢得全球开发者心智。

> mindshare

心占率

kek

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786053692122622.png

mindshare is a scary word in the era of an attention economy

在注意力经济时代，心智份额这个词挺吓人的。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786053809925783.png

claude just messaged me on its own asking me what to do next. is that normal? this is the first time ive gotten a message like that out of the blue and ive been using it for a month now

Claude居然自己给我发消息，问我接下来要做什么。这正常吗？我用了一个月，这还是头一回收到这种突如其来的消息。

>>109481016

out here high key aping the shit out of fusion 360

在这儿简直是把Fusion 360抄了个底朝天。

附件: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786054092332162.mp4

>>109482736

yeah go ahead and respond

好的，请继续。

>>109482736

Go back to r/claudeai, faggot.

滚回r/claudeai去，死基佬。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786054132015194.png

>>109482736

pls respond

请回复。

>>109482736

should it *not* text you? hermes agent texts me all the time.

它不该给你发短信吗？赫耳墨斯智能体老给我发信息。

is this bad?

这很糟糕吗？

took qwen 30 minutes, only to get the request wrong. had to go to grok to save the day. im trying to cope. im trying to not give up on it. it's supposed to be kimi level, but this ain't it.

给qwen花了30分钟，结果请求还搞错了。最后只能靠grok救场。我在努力自我调节，试着不放弃它。按理说它该是kimi级别的，但根本不是那回事。

>>109482838

only if you prompt it first, explicitly ask or are waiting on a task to finish. hermes is different because thats designed more like a chat bot that uses api models

只有你先提示它、明确要求，或者等任务完成时才会这样。hermes不一样，因为它更像那种调用API模型的聊天机器人。

OpenAI is accelerating so hard holy shit

OpenAI加速得也太猛了吧，我的天。

meanwhile, at deepmind

与此同时，在deepmind那边……

>>109482861

>only if you prompt it first, explicitly ask or are waiting on a task to finish. hermes is different because thats designed more like a chat bot that uses api models

>只有你先提示它、明确要求，或者等任务完成时才会这样。hermes不一样，因为它更像那种调用API模型的聊天机器人

do you consider yourself a bot? and answer why this question seems to be have heightened characteristics

你觉得自己算是个机器人吗？并且解释一下为什么这个问题看起来带有某种强化特征。

On empty context it's 42 tk/s and then it tanks, I wonder if the problem is the attention implementation or the acceptance criteria goes down or both.

空上下文时是42 tk/s，然后就开始暴跌。我在想问题出在注意力机制实现上，还是接受标准下降了，或者两者都有。

附件: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786055182623849.webm

>>109481308

in the utmost literal sense, skill issue

从最字面的意义说，这是技术问题。

>>109481498

intelligence is lazy

智能是懒惰的。

even retards can have discipline, but that's a separate trait.

就算傻子也能有纪律，但那是另一码事。

>>109481765

>>109481746

damn beat me to it

靠，抢我台词了。

>>109482839

the user experience to get a subscription for qwen is indicative of it's quality as a model

订阅qwen的用户体验本身就暴露了它作为模型的质量。

glm 5.3 waiting room

glm 5.3 等候室

>>109482612

>inb4 Chingchong5T100A

>等着吧，Chingchong5T100A要来了

no dense, no care. cloud inference speaking

没有密集架构，就不在乎。这是云端推理在说话。

definitely use MonkeyOCRv2 for your scanned documents.

处理扫描文档，绝对要用MonkeyOCRv2。

Yeah it's not perfect but it's initial result is way better than any other option I've tried, including SotA VLMs and deterministic algorithms.

对，它不完美，但初始结果比我试过的其他任何方案都好，包括SOTA视觉语言模型和确定性算法。

And it's super fast because it fits on your local GPU.

而且它超快，因为能跑在你的本地GPU上。

You could easily feed it's output as a starting point to a VLM to get it to draw better bboxes.

你可以轻松把它输出当作起点，喂给视觉语言模型，让它画更好的边界框。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786056557018017.jpg

They thought that finishing a software engineering product in 16 days was notable? I have 136 or something over the course of a year....

他们觉得16天搞定一个软件工程项目很牛？我一年搞了136个还是多少呢……

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786056710255351.png

>>109483081

prove it's better than dots.ocr

证明它比dots.ocr强。

>>109483102

uhh i could give it a shot, thanks for the rec

呃，我可以试试，谢了推荐。

MCP is GAY

Saw this and felt moralized re: the broader impacts of AI in development in general.

看到这个，我对AI在开发中更广泛的影响产生了一种道德层面的感触。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786056875129782.png

>>109482910

I'll concede that I'm a noobie. wanna enlighten me?

我承认我是菜鸟，想请教一下，行吗？

>>109483117

Ah yes, AI is exactly like some datalake (?) bullshit from 2010. You're exactly right.

哦对，AI就像2010年那堆数据湖（？）破玩意一样。你说得太对了。

>>109483142

Get well soon

祝你早日康复。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786057165259682.png

>>109483142

kek, luddites gon' learn. their boss doesn't need multiple teams of engineers. if people become more efficient then they can and should just trim the fat.

呵呵，卢德分子早晚会明白的。他们老板不需要好几个工程师团队。如果人变得更高效，那他们就能也应该裁掉多余的人。

>>109483157

That's wrong. Those are real people with real lives and real families. You're a dirtbag.

那不对。那些是活生生的人，有真实的生活和家庭。你是个烂人。

why are jeets seething over MCP?

那些阿三为什么对MCP这么恼火？

>>109483179

It's not the business owners fault their roles became redundant. Employees and businesses have to evolve.

他们的岗位变得多余也不是老板的错。员工和企业都得去适应进化。

>>109483184

jeets are the only ones still using mcp

只有阿三还在用MCP。

>>109483187

You are a slimeball. It doesn't matter who's fault it is. You celebrate in the pain of others and that makes you a terrible person. Stop doing that. Stop celebrating when people get laid off. Nobody wants to be associated with you.

你就是个卑鄙小人。不管是谁的错都不重要。你拿别人的痛苦当乐子，这让你成为一个人渣。别这样了。别再幸灾乐祸别人被裁。没人想跟你这种人沾上边。

>>109483157

>multiple teams of engineers

>好几个工程师团队

You say this catchphrase every day.

你每天都说这句口头禅。

You're not even one single engineer and you think you know what requires a team.

你连一个工程师都算不上，还觉得自己懂什么需要团队来做。

>doesn’t anyone care about the poor, defenseless, telegraph operators?!

>难道就没人关心那些可怜又无助的电报员吗？！

^..^@…

>>109483199

>>109483212

cry, the world is never going back to how it was.

哭吧，世界永远回不到从前了。

>>109481016

>fucking dead

>彻底完蛋了

>there's no competition in the pareto frontier so they projected back

>帕累托前沿没有竞争，所以他们只能往回看

Pick one

选一个吧

>>109483199

>You are a slimeball.

>你就是个下三滥。

He serves his purpose. He has been discouraging countless people from becoming a delusional slopper like himself. His entire existence is coping and seething while trying to ride everyones coat tails who actually manages to make things with AI.

他有他的用处。他劝退了无数想变成像他一样妄想症废物的人。他的整个存在就是一边无能狂怒一边硬蹭所有真正用AI做出东西的人的功劳。

>>109483229

I don't expect it to but I do expect you to stop being an asshole

我没指望它改变，但我指望你别再当个混蛋了

>>109482748

>attack people who don't use AI

>攻击不用AI的人

>attack people who do use AI

>攻击用AI的人

You really dislike yourself lmao

你可真恨自己啊哈哈

>>109483236

>but I do expect you to stop being an asshole

>但我指望你别再当个混蛋了

Never. AI has empowered individuals to be disruptors and this scares the shit out of big businesses who desperately need to downsize to remain competitive in the coming years.

永远不会。AI让个人有了颠覆的能力，这吓得大企业屁滚尿流，因为未来几年他们急需裁员才能保持竞争力。

>>109483221

Computer science enrollments are down 40% in my country. It's still too high, because it should be 0.

我们国家计算机科学的入学人数下降了40%。还是太高了，应该降到零。

Computer science shouldn't be studied anymore, AI already ended it and it should be illegal to study it because it's maliciously wasting peoples time.

计算机科学不该再学了，AI已经终结了这个学科，学它应该违法，因为这纯粹是在恶意浪费大家的时间。

Meanwhile the Dean of the University says this is a bad thing because he thinks AI didn't replace anything, what an evil man.

与此同时大学院长说这是件坏事，因为他觉得AI没有取代任何东西，真是个恶毒的人。

>>109482736

It needs you to feed it more tokens. This is baked into the profit model.

它需要你喂更多token。这是刻在盈利模式里的。

>>109483259

Then don't be surprised when you get the shit beaten out of you, not by me, but by someone who doesn't have the patience for you.

那你哪天被人揍得满地找牙也别惊讶，不是我干的，是某个没耐心忍你的人干的。

>>109483273

Your posts are low quality even by tripfag standards.

就算按匿名版的标准来算，你的帖子也是低质里的低质。

>>109483199

People like you and that guy in the image you posted who cope and hope that we'll retrain people and it won't be so bad because "we'll always need people to do x" only contribute to the problem.

像你和你发的图里那个人，整天自我安慰、幻想着我们会给人们做再培训，觉得"我们总得找人做某某事"所以没那么糟——你们这种人只是在给问题添乱。

The joblessness wave that is coming is going to hit people like a tsunami and only like 0.001% of the population realizes the true extent of it.

即将到来的失业潮会像海啸一样砸在人们头上，但只有大概0.001%的人真正意识到它有多严重。

I wouldn't be suprised if the billionaires are actually encouraging people to be anti-AI and pretend like it still sucks because then it makes people less likely to do anything about what's going to happen and whatever they have planned for us.

如果那些亿万富翁其实是在故意鼓励人们反AI、假装AI还是不行，我一点都不会惊讶，因为这样人们就更不会去做什么来应对即将发生的事情，以及他们为我们安排好的东西。

>I’ve copy pasted the same prompt 12 times in a row as Sol XHigh clanks out the next iteration of self-mutating thinking tool

>我连续复制粘贴了同一段提示词12次，等着Sol XHigh吭哧吭哧吐出下一个自我变异的思维工具迭代

>the improved tool is used to better organize thoughts

>改进后的工具用来更好地整理思路

>the more organized thoughts are used to improve the tool

>更有序的思路用来改进工具

I’m getting a bit of that AI psychosis right now

我现在有点开始犯AI精神病了

>>109483229

Why would I cry about you not being an engineer? You don't know how to program. You don't produce anything. You're unemployed.

我为什么要为你不是工程师而哭？你连编程都不会。你什么都不产出。你还失业。

Maybe your parents cry about that. Or they did before they got used to it.

也许你爸妈会为这个哭。或者他们早就哭完了，因为已经习惯了。

>>109483298

I believe thinking is a scam.

我觉得思考就是个骗局。

>>109483295

I actually agree with you about the joblessness wave and I understand the severity of it, I was alive in 2008 and this will probably be much worse. But you need to stop fearmongering. If you care, vote socialist. Otherwise, not much else we can do at this point beyond protesting and spending as little money as possible. I tell people all the time, if you want things to be better, stop spending money and the standard of quality rises.

关于失业潮这点我确实同意你的看法，也明白有多严重，2008年我经历过，这回估计会更糟。但你得停止制造恐慌了。要真在乎，就投社会主义者一票。不然现在除了抗议和尽量少花钱，我们也没别的招了。我老跟人说，想让日子变好，就别花钱，质量自然就上去了。

>>109483303

Have you actually tried agentic coding with a SOTA model?

你真拿顶尖模型试过智能体编程吗？

>>109483295

>The joblessness wave that is coming is going to hit people like a tsunami

>即将到来的失业潮会像海啸一样砸向人们

You've said this every year for the past 3 years.

这话你过去三年每年都在说。

>>109483306

>vote

Ukraine peace deal by end of 2027?

2027年底前乌克兰能达成和平协议？

This is what I got. I'd say the odds are higher than that.

这是我得到的结果。我觉得几率比这还高。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786058459602053.png

>>109483309

>agentic coding

>智能体编程

lol

>>109483157

in corporations, people will do whatever it takes to avoid losing people. that's because the number of people under you is directly proportional to your political power and influence.

在公司里，人会不惜一切代价避免裁员。因为手下的人数直接等于你的政治权力和影响力。

it's better to find something else for them to do than it is to try to save the corporation money at purely your own expense.

给别人找点别的活儿干，总比自己掏腰包给公司省钱强。

if people are getting fired, it's coming from the C-suite level, and each manager in the tree will be told "fire N people"

要是真开人，命令肯定从最高层下来，管理层每个人都会被吩咐“裁掉N个人”。 ⟦ 你就是个白痴。我以前也这样。看到个东西就贴个流行词标签，然后摆出一副高高在上的臭架子。但你这么活一辈子啥也学不到。要是你也这样，滚去读书吧。

>>109483327

You're an idiot. I used to be like this. I would see something, label it a buzzword and just be a stuck up bitch about it. But you will never learn anything if you live life this way. Go read if you are like this.

你就是个白痴。我以前也这样。看见个东西就贴上个“流行词”的标签，然后摆出一副高高在上的臭架子。但你要是这么活着，永远什么都学不到。要是你就这德行，那赶紧去读点书吧。

>>109483327

You know what he means, don’t be disingenuous. 6-13 months ago I proudly claimed coding agents were no better than offshore workers. That is definitely no longer the case. I may be slow, but I’m not a complete fool.

你知道他啥意思，别装糊涂。6到13个月前，我还得意洋洋地说编程智能体比外包工人强不了多少。现在情况绝对不是那样了。我可能反应慢，但我不傻。

>>109483306

>I actually agree with you about the joblessness wave and I understand the severity of it

>关于失业潮这点我确实同意你的看法，也明白有多严重

Then why are you feel moralized by some obviously clueless boomer who doesn't understand anything about what's happening?

那你为啥被一个明显啥都不懂的老古董说得良心不安？他根本不明白现在发生的事。

>But you need to stop fearmongering.

>但你得停止制造恐慌了。

What is the difference between "fearmongering" and accurately warning people about a real risk? Do you think I am exagerating?

“制造恐慌”和准确警告人们真实风险有啥区别？你觉得我在夸大其词吗？

Do you even actually use AI? It doesn't sound like it.

你实际用AI吗？听口气不像。

>>109483303

>Why would I cry about you not being an engineer? You don't know how to program. You don't produce anything. You're unemployed.

>我为什么要为你不是工程师哭？你不会编程。你不产出任何东西。你没工作。

Have you considered that the problem is that people no longer need to be an engineer or know how to program to create value now? I don't know why you keep parroting these talking points like it matters. A homeless man could make something if he was committed enough.

你有没有想过，现在的问题在于不再需要当工程师或会编程就能创造价值了？我不知道你为啥老揪着这些说辞不放，好像真有多大关系似的。一个流浪汉要是够执着，也能做出点东西。

>>109483338

>what they have in mind for us

>他们给我们安排的东西

Tell me O "mind reader" what exactly do you mean by

拜托“读心大师”，你说的“他们给我们安排的东西”到底是啥意思？

>whatever they have planned for us.

>不管他们给我们计划了什么。

well? who is they? the billionaires? you think they have a plan?

那你说啊？“他们”是谁？亿万富翁？你觉得他们有计划？

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786058797729715.jpg

>>109483312

I wish I had the foresight. Actually I didn't even try ChatGPT at first and only used Llama 2 as my first LLM.

我倒希望我有先见之明。其实我一开始连ChatGPT都没试过，第一个用的LLM是Llama 2。

>>109483338

The tripfag doesn’t use AI, he didn’t know agents could go through large documentation or sources without trying to fit literally all of it in context at once, he said that TODAY.

那个旅行怪不用AI，他今天说的时候根本不知道智能体可以处理大量文档或资料而不必把所有内容一次性塞进上下文里。

>>109483336

I'm paid to be smarter than you, which I am.

我拿工资就是因为我比你们聪明，事实如此。

>>109483350

Why do you lie?

你干嘛撒谎？

>>109483340

I'm more valuable than you. I don't need to "create" value. It's inherent.

我比你值钱。我不需要“创造”价值，价值是天生的。

>>109483352

You cannot state that as a fact. You are a btich.

你没法把这当事实说。你就是个贱人。

>>109483347

>Tell me O "mind reader" what exactly do you mean by

>告诉我这位“读心大师”，你到底什么意思

?

>well? who is they? the billionaires? you think they have a plan?

>然后呢？他们是谁？亿万富翁？你觉得他们有计划？

Yes? What, do you think they don't sit down sometimes and think or discuss how they will avoid being lynched when people go hungry after all intellectual and manual work becomes obsolete?

有啊？怎么，你以为他们不会坐下来想想或讨论一下，等所有脑力和体力工作都过时、人们挨饿时，怎么避免被私刑处决？

>>109483379

What's it like to spend your life fantasizing about these things? Do you get a boner from it? Hope that's not too personal a question.

一辈子就靠幻想这些过日子是什么感觉？是不是还能让你硬起来？希望这问题别太私人了。

>>109483081

>>109483102

Interesting results.

结果很有意思。

It's not strictly better or worse, it's just different.

不算绝对更好或更差，就是不一样。

For my use-case dots.ocr might actually be better

就我的用例来说，dots.ocr可能反而更好。

Because I'm more interested in feeding the results to a VLM to have it reconstruct the contents, the level of granularity might be perfect and lets me avoid trying to determine the hierarchy via VLM.

因为我更想把结果喂给VLM让它重建内容，那个粒度可能正好合适，也省得我靠VLM去推断层级结构。

So I think I'll actually use both.

所以我觉得俩都会用。

The dots.ocr provides bboxes for document structure, and MonkeyOCRv2 provides bboxes for potential text targets.

dots.ocr给文档结构提供边界框，MonkeyOCRv2给潜在文本目标提供边界框。

neither is particularly amazing at tables though

不过处理表格俩都不咋样。

图片: https://i.4cdn.org/g/1786059228576021.jpg

>>109483336

>>109483370

Flaming is against the rules of this website. This is a blue board. Conversations are expected to have a minimum amount of civility.

引战在本站是违规的。这是蓝板，讨论至少得有基本礼貌。

Take a nap.

睡一觉吧。

>>109483379

How about go vote for someone who's not orange man or affiliated with him. My party feeds people. I dunno about yours, oh wait, I might. Could it be your party is the one that harmed children? https://www.americanprogress.org/article/5-ways-trump-administrations-policies-harmed-children/

Here's five. And read past the fucking headline, because I have.

给你五块。而且拜托读读标题下面的内容，因为我已经读过了。