Why?
Winjeets don't deserve this
Winjeets 不该受这种待遇
瓦爾韋贊助開發將開源RADV驅動帶到Windows
>companies can do the fuck they want
>公司想干啥就干啥
>op seethes
>OP破防
what causes this?
这是咋回事？
Fuck Gabe, I knew he would betray us.
去你的G胖，我就知道他背刺我们。
>>109402328
Brain damage.
脑残。
>>109401735
Go back to configuring your Catppuccin faggot neko-ears ass VSCODE theme, OP
OP，回去搞你那套Catppuccin风骚猫耳VSCODE主题配置吧
>It's in Valve's best interest that GPU drivers are as smooth as possible, in order to be able to sell as many games as possible. Meanwhile, GPU vendors are incentivized to only really focus on the last couple generations, since ultimately they need to sell new cards to be around. Good support for older cards can help make people more likely to pick you when they *do* need a new card, but it also increases how long until they need a new card, so it's a lot harder to justify the dev spend. Meanwhile, Valve has a much more obvious path to financially justifying the spend: Game run good, person buy game; Game run bad, person not buy game.
>对Valve来说，GPU驱动越顺滑越好，这样才能多卖游戏。 Meanwhile，GPU厂商被激励去只关注最近几代产品，因为他们最终得靠卖新卡活下去。老显卡支持好能增加人们换卡时选你的几率，但也延长了他们换卡的周期，所以很难合理化开发投入。 Meanwhile，Valve有條更直接的财务理由：游戏运行好，人就买游戏；游戏运行差，人就不买。
>>109402519
The real reason is that you have difference in vulkan/opengl/directx implementation depending on vendors. somethings will be faster on nvidia, while others will be faster on radeon. And sometimes things straight up don't work on a different vendor.
真正的原因是不同厂商的Vulkan/OpenGL/DirectX实现有差异。某些情况Nvidia更快，某些情况Radeon更快。有时东西在不同厂商上压根不工作。
Valve uses radeon in their steam deck/steam machine consoles, which use the (superior) mesa radv driver. Thus it's in their best interest that games still come out with compatibility and good performances for radeon cards.
Valve在Steam Deck/Steam Machine掌机里用Radeon，用的是（更优秀的）mesa radv驱动。所以游戏在Radeon卡上保持兼容性和好性能符合他们的最大利益。
And perhaps devs will care more about optimizing for radeon if there's a better driver vendor, which is a win win for valve and gamers in general.
也许如果有更好的驱动厂商，开发者会更在乎针对Radeon优化，这对Valve和广大玩家都是双赢。
>RADV
Who cares. Everyone on Windows uses NVIDIA anyway.
谁在乎。Windows上大家都用NVIDIA anyway。
>>109401735
good one, OP.
说得好，OP。
i, too, saw that one comment on this article after finding the article on Hacker News (tm)
我，也在HN（tm）找到这篇文章后，看到了那条评论
>>109401735
Market capture
市场统治
So studios target it and it will work flawlessly on Linux
所以工作室针对它优化，游戏在Linux上就能完美运行
>>109401735
Would be based and amazing if it works on Windows 7.
如果能在Win7上运行那就太屌太棒了。
>>109402664
kys faggot
去死吧死基佬
>>109402679
Shut the fuck up
闭嘴
>>109402636
This is the problem they're addressing. nVidia has been actively making PCs worse since the DX8 era.
这就是他们要解决的问题。Nvidia从DX8时代起就一直让PC变得更烂。
>>109401735
>Winjeets don't deserve this
Winjeets不配享有这个
They don't but Gabe is playing the long game. He's not trying to win over microsoft, he's trying to win over developers. If all games run on ubiquitous drivers, then winblows has no edge, nothing to keep the normies wedded to it.
确实不配，但Gabe在下一盘大棋。他不是想争取微软，而是想争取开发者。如果所有游戏都跑在通用的驱动上，那么Winblows就没了优势，也没了什么东西能让小白们继续绑定它。
>>109403035
This, DICE and amd worked together to create their own modern graphics api. Which was primarily aimed at consoles, as xbox and ps* both use amd graphics cards.
没错，DICE和AMD合作搞出了他们自己的现代图形API。主要面向主机，因为Xbox和PS*都用AMD显卡。
Nvidia has tried it's hardest to gain market shares by making sure they were the only one to implement properly directx. And since directx is partly authored by GPU vendors, it wasn't really hard to do. They've also helped game studios use their custom solutions, like HairX, PhysX and OptiX. These can't be implemented by other vendors because the API is extremely opaque.
NVIDIA拼命想通过确保自己是唯一能正确实现DirectX的厂商来抢占市场份额。既然DirectX部分是由GPU厂商共同制定的，这并不难做到。他们还帮助游戏工作室使用自己的自定义方案，比如HairX、PhysX和OptiX。由于API极其不透明，其他厂商无法实现这些。
>>109401735
>Why?
if developers only need to target 1 driver, it makes everyone's lives easier
如果开发者只需要针对一个驱动，那对大家都方便
>>109403833
devs don't target drivers, they target graphics/gpu apis.
开发者不针对驱动，他们针对的是图形/GPU API。
in fact you can't even target a driver, even if you want to.
事实上，即使你想，你也无法针对某个驱动进行开发。
i thought this was the technology board
我以为这里是技术版
>>109404349
This board is full of iPhone kiddies now you can tell by the IMG underscore filename and how retarded they are
现在这版块全是iPhone小鬼，看IMG下划线文件名和他们那反智的表现就知道了
>>109404349
not having to worry about platform specific (driver) bugs. You would know this if you actually did graphics work on multiple platforms
不用操心特定平台（驱动）的bug。如果你真的在多平台上做过图形开发，你就会知道。
>>109404560
the bugs you're referring to are usually version dependent and have common workarounds implemented in most engines. usually it's the other way around; people relying on vendor-specific behavior, when vulkan or directx says nothing about these in the first place.
你提到的bug通常是版本相关的，大多数引擎里都有通用的变通方案。通常是反过来的；人们依赖厂商特定的行为，而Vulkan或DirectX本身对此毫无规定。
>>109402664
I dont see why it wouldn't work in win7/
我不知道为什么在Win7上不行/
>>109402519
This is why proprietary crap is inherently anti competitive
这就是为什么专有软件本质上具有反竞争性
Are you a GPU manufacturer who just care aboit selling the latest and greatest and gives zero fuck about long term driver support and improvements? No problem, the free market will provide some third party which will invest in maintaining those drivers to serve the gamers
你是不是那种只管卖最新最好、根本不在乎长期驱动支持和改进的GPU厂商？没问题，自由市场会有第三方出来投资维护这些驱动，服务玩家
>>109401735
what's bad about this?
这有什么不好的？
if everything is vulkan anyway it will run the same on anything
反正如果都是Vulkan，那在任何地方都能跑一样的效果
valve just realises that directx is cancer
Valve只是意识到DirectX是个毒瘤
>>109401735
encroaching on windows will further force devs to accept steamos as a platform
侵蚀Windows市场会进一步迫使开发者接受SteamOS作为平台
it will also bring abandoned aymd users to linux once they realize their old cards had a lot of driver support left in them
它也会把那些被抛弃的AMD用户带到Linux上，一旦他们意识到自己的老显卡还有大量的驱动支持潜力
>>109401735
I've said that the performance difference between AMD and Nvidia is due to Nvidia having a more unified close sourced driver, but AMD's original closed source vulkan driver got 100% replaced with the open source version.
我之前说过，AMD和NVIDIA之间的性能差异是因为NVIDIA有更统一的闭源驱动，但AMD原来的闭源Vulkan驱动已经100%被开源版本取代了。
So if we have a really good radv driver on windows, and it's faster than the closed source driver, that would prove that nvidia isn't bad for linux, it's just that AMD has bad drivers for windows.
所以，如果我们在Windows上有一个非常优秀的radv驱动，并且它比闭源驱动更快，那就证明了NVIDIA在Linux上并不差，只是AMD在Windows上的驱动很烂。
But even though nvidia has a unified driver, linux users get zero benefits such as no ability to set DLDSR / DSR or per application frame limit, but the real reason we don't have those QoL features is because of x11 and wayland, and I don't know where games are installed into on linux, I think it's in usr/bin or usr/lib, I swear I remember there being a /games folder somewhere, I don't actually know.
但尽管英伟达有统一驱动，Linux 用户却连个福利都没有，比如根本没法开 DLDSR/DSR 或者给每个应用单独设置帧数限制。实际上我们没有这些提升体验的功能，归根结底是因为 X11 和 Wayland。另外我不太清楚 Linux 下游戏一般装在哪，好像是 usr/bin 或者 usr/lib？我发誓我记得好像有个 /games 文件夹，反正我也不太确定。
>>109405627
>it's just that AMD has bad drivers for windows.
>只是说 AMD 在 Windows 上的驱动很烂。
and nvidia has bad linux drivers (-30% perf), everyone knows this
而且英伟达在 Linux 上的驱动也很烂（性能低 30%），大家都知道这件事。
>>109405627
>I don't know where games are installed into on linux
>我不知道Linux里游戏装在哪
either
A)where ever the fuck you want
A) 随便他妈你想装哪
B) wherever your package manager fucking wants
B) 他妈的随你的包管理器想装哪
longer story, never install native linux games
说来话长，永远别装原生Linux游戏
Proton's purpose is to address interoperability between distros and versions as much as it is meant to address Windows compatibility.
Proton的存在不仅仅是为了兼容Windows，更是为了解决不同发行版和版本间的互操作性问题。
the abreviated story is games are 'windows'. so for the foreseeable future, just make windows games. You will get a Linux game out of it also. And Mac. And...
简而言之，游戏都是“Windows”的。所以至少在可预见的未来，就制作Windows游戏。这样你也能得到Linux版本的游戏，还有Mac版本。还有……
But the long term goal is catering backward-compatibility for windows platforms as much as native linux builds on linux. Even longer term goal would be 'just make Proton games', but that's probably entirely an aside, depending on where Valve goes with it for ARM, etc, and we're talking very speculatively about what Valve would LIKE to do, not necessarily what will ever happen. But to be concise, Valve does not even recommend installing native linux games when given the choice, because native linux apps are a nightmare of moving target dependencies. It might work now. It might work better than the Windows build on Proton right now. But only on your current distro, with whatever packages are currently installed.... just don't even bother. I doubt Valve will ever get around to conforming Proton to address any of that.
但长期目标是在 Linux 平台上尽可能像原生 Linux 构建一样，为 Windows 平台提供向后兼容。更长远期的目标则是“干脆直接做 Proton 游戏”，但这恐怕完全是题外话，取决于 Valve 在 ARM 等方面会怎么走，而且我们这里纯属推测 Valve 希望做什么，而不一定是真正会发生的事。总之简洁地说，如果让用户自己选，Valve 甚至不推荐安装原生 Linux 游戏，因为原生 Linux 应用就是移动靶依赖的噩梦。它现在可能能用。它现在可能比 Proton 上的 Windows 版跑得更好。但这只适用于你当前的发行版，以及当前安装的这些软件包……反正别折腾了。我怀疑 Valve 永远没空去调整 Proton 来解决这些乱七八糟的问题。
>>109401735
This is good news for windows 7 holdouts, if it works.
如果真能实现，这对 Windows 7 钉子户来说是好消息。
>>109402664
It would let me use a 9070xt on windows 7 + Zen 3 arch. As of now I'm still using a 6750xt for it.
这样我就能在 Win7 + Zen3 架构上用上 9070xt 了。目前我还在用它跑 6750xt。
>>109405326
Timur in Valve should be given more money to work on it. He's keeping old GPUs out of the landfill, now this is true environmentalism.
给 Valve 的 Timur 加钱让他搞这个吧。他把老显卡从垃圾场里捞出来了，这才是真正的环保。
NO. NO NO NO. AMD DRIVERS ON LINUX ARE ALL WE FUCKING HAVE. VALVE FUCKING STOP. GO HOME YOU'RE DRUNK. THEY DON'T FUCKING DESERVE IT, WHAT DO WINDOWS USERS SACRIFICE
>>109407846
>WHAT DO WINDOWS USERS SACRIFICE
A chicken and about an hour of prayer?
一只鸡加大约一小时的祷告？
Don't be antisemitic.
别搞反犹主义。
>>109401735
so, proton has failed?
所以，Proton 失败了？
>>109401735
What's the use case?
使用场景是什么？
>>109401735
thanks for beta testing, linuxsisters
感谢你们做 Linux 姐妹花的公测
>>109401735
ELI5, why is this good or bad?
简单易懂的解释：这到底是好事还是坏事？
t. /v/ retard
t. /v/ 智障
>>109409424
It's the single best performing AMD driver, that happens to be exclusive to Linux
它是单性能最好的 AMD 驱动，尽管它只在 Linux 上独占。
>>109401735
It's the same codebase so Linux benefits from this as well.(assuming it all goes well and people actually use this)
代码库是一样的，所以 Linux 也能从中受益。（假设一切顺利且真的有人用）
Real question is, does that mean we need to introduce DirectX support directly into the AMD driver we use for Linux?
真正的问题是，这是否意味着我们需要在 Linux 用的 AMD 驱动里直接加入 DirectX 支持？
>>109401735
Neat but mostly irrelevant.
挺酷但基本无关紧要。
Be it work, gaming or hobby AI shit, everyone outside of retards and poorfags use Nvidia with Windows anyways.
不管是工作、游戏还是搞 AI 垃圾，除了智障和穷鬼，外面的人不管用啥都他妈用 Nvidia + Windows。
>>109410005
Trvke in general, I'd just use Nvidia on Windows. But I feel like AMD is getting more important, especially with Xbone/Gaystation relying on it and now the Steam Deck/Machine and now a fucking unified driver, this could be huge.
总的来说，我会直接用 Nvidia + Windows。但我感觉 AMD 越来越重要了，特别是 Xbone/Gaystation 都在靠它，现在还有 Steam Deck/Machine 和统一驱动，这可能影响巨大。
>>109402328
I see this a lot with individuals, too.
这种个体主义我也见多了。
Someone will choose not to have a twitter account and suddenly all hell breaks loose and the entire conversation degenerates into deranged screeching; or someone will say they don't use ai or that they will no longer buy sony stuff, etc.
有人决定不用 Twitter 账号，突然就炸锅了，整个对话退化成一堆疯狗般的尖叫；或者有人说不用 AI 或者不再买索尼的东西之类的。
It seems like a lot of people get really fuckin' spiced up over the idea that other people are individuals with their own wants/feelings/desires and proceed to go apeshit over it.
看来很多人一想到“别人是独立的个体，有自己的欲求/感受/渴望”就他妈兴奋得不行，然后彻底破防。
>>109410208
At this point I think intel graphics division is more relevant than amd
到这时候我觉得英特尔显卡部门比 AMD 还有存在感。
>>109402664
Its open source, so it shouldn't be impossible for some autist to port it. I've seen legacy OS autists maintain drivers for audio, storage, and USB before. The most notable examples are the modern SATA and NVME drivers for XP, and the Intel HD Audio drivers for DOS.
它是开源的，所以某些自闭症宅男把它移植过去应该不会太不可能。我以前见过维护音频、存储和 USB 驱动的复古系统宅。最出名的例子就是 XP 的现代 SATA 和 NVMe 驱动，以及 DOS 下的 Intel HD 音频驱动。
Personally, I'm hoping we'll get an XP port or maybe even an improved version of the open source generic VESA drivers that already exist for older Windows versions.
个人来说，我希望能看到XP平台的移植版，或者可能是针对旧版Windows现存的开源通用VESA驱动器的改进版本。
>>109401735
Open source graphics drivers puts us one step closer to replacing Windows entirely. Imagine if the work from this got combined with ReactOS, which has notably struggled with adding support for graphics drivers for years.
开源显卡驱动让我们离彻底取代Windows更近了一步。想象一下，如果这项工作能与ReactOS结合起来，后者多年来一直在努力添加对显卡驱动的支持却举步维艰。
>>109404349
And Windows drivers, particularly ones for legacy hardware, are known to lag behind on API support, especially Vulkan.
而Windows驱动程序，尤其是针对遗留硬件的驱动，在API支持方面已知会落后，特别是Vulkan。
>>109410005
This may change that. If these drivers cause AMD to outperform Nvidia on Windows, then AMD becomes the better option, which will cause more people to use it. That's the reason Linux users prefer AMD.
这可能会改变这一状况。如果这些驱动让AMD在Windows上超越Nvidia的跑分，那么AMD就会成为更好的选择，从而促使更多人使用它。这也是Linux用户偏爱AMD的原因。
>>109410470
it's mainly because modern apis like vulkan are not graphics api, but gpu apis. you need specific hardware to implement it for a card and emulating newer hardware feature isn't always possible.
这主要是因为Vulkan等现代API不仅仅是图形API，更是GPU API。你需要特定的硬件才能在某张显卡上实现它，而模拟较新的硬件功能并不总是可行的。
these cards will likely never be able to run modern vulkan versions because of this.
因此，这些显卡很可能永远无法运行现代版本的Vulkan。
>>109409349
improved performance on AMD cards, longer legacy support. Games will run better and people won't have to upgrade their GPUs as often.
AMD显卡性能提升，延长对旧硬件的支持。游戏运行更流畅，人们也不用那么频繁地升级显卡了。
>>109410501
AMD can't even compete with CUDA or DLSS, even if pure raster at native would be faster for the price, it would still be irrelevant.
AMD甚至无法与CUDA或DLSS竞争，即使原生光栅化性能在同价位下更快，那也无足轻重。
>>109410502
Windows drivers usually lag behind their open source Linux equivelents in feature set support. Intel iGPUs are the worst offenders, they've support Vulkan at the hardware level as far back as Haswell, but had no software support for it until multiple generations later. And said support was never backported.
Windows驱动程序在功能支持上通常落后于其开源的Linux对应版本。Intel核显是这方面的重灾区，他们的硬件早在Haswell时代就支持Vulkan，但软件支持却在好几代之后才出现，而且后来也从未回溯移植过。
AMD card similarly lack software support for a lot of Vulkan features on Windows, which they do support on Linux, because of the drivers.
AMD显卡在Windows上由于驱动原因，同样缺乏对许多在Linux上已支持的Vulkan特性的软件支持。
>>109410518
>CUDA
I was under the impression AMD has making improvements in the area for the past few years, and that CUDA also wasn't that relevant to gaming.
我一直以为AMD在过去几年里一直在该领域进行改进，而且CUDA对游戏来说也没那么重要。
>DLSS
Isn't that mostly software dependent? Nvidia seems to be always pushing better DLSS implementations on their older cards.
那不就主要看软件吗？Nvidia似乎一直在为其旧显卡推送更好的DLSS实现。
>>109410546
>that relevant to gaming.
>那对游戏来说并不重要。
>>109410005
>Be it work, gaming or hobby AI shit
>无论是工作、游戏还是搞点业余AI玩意儿
honestly its pretty hard to hate valve when it comes to shit like this, I know they got kids hooked on gambling and shit, hell I was using my lunch money on tf2 crates as a kid but learnt quick that thats a fruitless endeavour. But when it comes to making PC gaming as a whole better Valve is doing a pretty good job
说实话，像这类事情很难让人去恨Valve。我知道他们让小朋友们沉迷赌博之类的东西，天啊，我小时候还拿午餐费去抽TF2的箱子，但很快我就明白那是毫无意义的举动。但当涉及到让整个PC游戏体验变得更好时，Valve确实做得相当不错。
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