今天听到一个社畜办公室传来基督教音乐，我不禁想：如果社畜
I heard Christian music coming from a wagie's office today and wondered: If wagies didn't believe they'll get a sooper speshul epic prize for all their misery after they die, would they still wage? Are we (the elite/NEET ruling class) just tricking them into voluntary slavery?
今天听到一个社畜办公室传来基督教音乐，我不禁想：如果社畜们不信他们死后会因受苦而获得那种超级特别的史诗级奖励，他们还会继续当牛做马吗？我们（精英/尼特统治阶级）是不是在欺骗他们自愿沦为奴隶？
>>62504493
They want to be tricked, there's a demand for that, it's a trillion dollar industry. Be grateful that this flavor of the millennium cult doesn't demand bi-yearly ritual NEET sacrifices.
他们就是喜欢被忽悠，这市场大得很，是个万亿美元级别的产业。你应该庆幸，这种千禧年风潮的邪教还没要求每年两次搞“家里蹲”献祭仪式。
>>62504493
Your in that same job working with them
你也是在那家和他们一起干活的公司上班
>>62504493
If he's some evangelical he probably believes listening to that music/donating to his pastor's private jet fund/donating to Israel will increase his worldly wealth in this life
如果他是那种狂热福音派，那他可能觉得听这种音乐/给牧师私人飞机基金捐款/捐给以色列，能增加他今生的世俗财富
>>62507594
Yeah but he listens to Christian music which means he is a wage-slave and I post on /biz/ which means I'm just a temporarily embarrassed hustlah'.
是啊，但他听基督教音乐，说明他是工资奴隶；我发在/biz/（商业版块），说明我只是个暂时穷困的混子。
>>62504493
On a side note to OPs bait post, why is contemporary christian music so terrible? It all has the same sort of saccharine, overly sentimental, downer vibe which sounds extremely forced and superficial. I am convinced it is some conspiracy to keep the minds of christians placid and vacuous, contributing to a mindset of low ambition and passive lifestyle. After all, how could anyone do anything of note listening to such depressing music all the time? I would think any deity would be irritated by it.
顺便说一句，给楼主这种钓鱼帖回应一下：为什么当代基督教音乐这么烂？所有歌都有一种甜得发腻、过度煽情、情绪低落的氛围，听起来极度做作和肤浅。我坚信这是某种阴谋，旨在让基督徒的思想保持平庸和空虚，助长低 ambition 和被动的生活方式。毕竟，整天听着这么压抑的音乐，谁能干出什么有名堂的事呢？我想任何神明都会对此感到恼火的。
>>62509638
Because modern Christianity is extremely forced and superficial, you answered your own question. Almost everyone in modern society is a Mammon worshipper, Christian’s especially so
因为现代基督教本身就极度做作和肤浅，你自己已经回答了这个问题。现代社会里几乎每个人都是金钱（Mammon）的崇拜者，基督徒尤其如此。
>>62504493
how can you be "elite ruling class" or "NEET ruling class" if you work in an office? this story reeks of low IQ OCPD namenigger discord tranny.
你在办公室上班，怎么可能是“精英统治阶级”或“家里蹲统治阶级”？这故事散发着一股低智商、强迫症、名字长串的Discord跨性别白痴的气息。
>>62509655
Alright so i'm not well informed about this stuff, but it seems to me that most christian denominations today at best do not emphasize material wealth as important, and at worst actively proselytize against significant material accumulation. My impression is that they want the common follower to be happy in his little cuck shack or apartment hive cell without reaching for much more than that, perfectly in lockstep with the ethos of "you will own nothing and be happy," totally content to just passively watch the world depreciate and burn around them as long as they trust in Jesus and the master plan so they get good goy points in the afterlife. What about this is congruent with Mammon worship, or the pursuit of material wealth? Tbh i wish christians did seem more interested in material pursuits.
好吧，我对这事了解不多，但在我看来，当今大多数基督教宗派顶多是不强调物质财富的重要性，最坏的情况则是积极传教反对积累大量物质财富。我的印象是，他们希望普通信徒在自己那小小的“绿帽屋”或蜂巢公寓单间里自得其乐，不去追求更多，这完全契合“你将一无所有，并为此感到快乐”的教条。他们满足于被动地看着世界在他们周围贬值、燃烧，只要他们信仰耶稣和那个“宏大计划”，就能在死后赚取 good goy points（异教徒积分/奖赏）。这哪一点符合对金钱（Mammon）的崇拜或对物质财富的追求？说实话，我真希望基督徒看起来对物质追求更感兴趣些。
>>62504493
You're very quick to mock 2,000 years of history and heritage. Have you ever thought that its kind of weird that we are all here, and that theres not just nothing at all? Atheists can surely point to evidence that matter and energy can spontaneously materialize out of nothing and point to creations that dont have a creator, right? You will be humbled sooner or later
你太轻易地嘲笑2000年的历史和传承了。你有没有想过，我们都还在这里，而不仅仅是虚无一片，这本身就挺奇怪的？无神论者难道不能指出物质和能量从无到有自发产生的证据，并指出那些没有创造者的创造物吗？你迟早会被打脸的。
>>62504493
Hmm. Consider this though: Many of the most gifted, powerful and wealthy people on this entire planet are Christian and worship Christ as Lord
嗯，不过请考虑这一点：地球上许多最有天赋、最有力量和最富有的人都是基督徒，并以基督为主。
does this maek u mad? Upset?
这让你生气了吗？难过吗？
>>62504493
religion does help worker drones deal with their cattle existence
宗教确实有助于工蜂们忍受他们像牲口一样的生活
>>62509803
what if it didn't come out of nothing but science just can't observe where it came from
万一它不是从无中产生的，只是科学目前无法观察到的来源而已呢
have you considered that?
你有想过这个吗？
Isn't that your own theory anyway since you can't physically prove god
反正这也是你自己的理论吧，毕竟你没法用物理证据证明上帝存在。
>>62509638
I think the music sounds that way, saccharine, high effort and monochromatic because the writers and singers are afraid of anything that verges on sensuality. An interesting point to suggest that Deity would be irritated by it, you may be on to something there, although I do listen to the stuff fairly regularly as part of my spiritual practice to avoid worldly stimuli I can only take so much before I put on some reggae or any other kind of devotional music that has more soul in it
我觉得这音乐听起来就是这样，甜腻腻、费力不讨好且单调乏味，因为词曲作者和歌手害怕任何接近感官享乐的东西。说神明可能会对此感到厌烦，这个观点挺有意思，也许你说得对。虽然我作为灵性修行的一部分经常听这类音乐以避免世俗刺激，但在听了太多之后，我也会转去听雷鬼或其他更有灵魂感的虔敬音乐。
>>62510489
Physical proof of God is the only thing that exists, if you can't immediately perceive this you simply need to ask yourself why you can't see what others take as obvious. The answer is probably that, at the present moment, you don't want to see it.
上帝的物理证据是唯一的存在，如果你无法立刻感知到这一点，那你只需要问自己：为什么你看不出别人看来显而易见的事实？答案很可能是，在当下，你根本不想看到它。
>>62504493
>If wagies didn't believe they'll get a sooper speshul epic prize for all their misery after they die, would they still wage?
>如果工资奴工们不相信死后苦难会换来超级特别的史诗级奖赏，他们还会继续当牛做马吗？
Yes. Some people (most) don't do well with freedom
会。有些人（大多数）不适应自由。
Atheists and their LARPagan brethren are the niggers of religion
无神论者和他们的LARP（线下角色扮演）异教徒兄弟就是宗教里的黑鬼。
>>62509638
Not mentioned in your post is how much more... ghetto, for lack of a better term, Christian music has become over the last 10 years. Everything sounds like that stupid "tonight we are young" song but more ghetto.
你的帖子没提到的是，在过去十年里，基督教音乐变得……更…… ghetto（街区/贫民窟风格）了。什么都听起来像那首愚蠢的《今晚我们年轻》那种歌，只是更 ghetto。
>>62504493
It's a spiritual practice of accepting your lot in life after you've tried everything you can to get out of it. Instead of choosing to become spiteful and evil because of reality, you choose to garden and foster your soul. It's healthier not just spiritually but physically, to not be so high strung.
这是一种灵性修行，即在尝试了一切能摆脱困境的方法后，接受自己在生活中的处境。与其因为现实而选择变得怨毒和邪恶，不如选择耕耘并滋养自己的灵魂。不过分紧绷，不仅对灵性有益，对身体也好。
>>62510575
Interesting take. Not sure i totally agree, depending on how you're defining sensuality. But assuming this is the reason, the question becomes WHY are they afraid of invoking any sensuality? Music itself is a sensual medium, so if the idea is to limit such experience, seems a poor way to do it.
很有意思的观点。我不确定完全同意，这取决于你如何定义“感官享乐”。但假设这确实是原因，问题就变成了：他们为什么害怕唤起任何感官体验？音乐本身就是一种感官媒介，如果目的是限制这种体验，那看来是个很拙劣的方式。
this OP has been crossposted and repeated across many boards
这个楼主已经把帖子跨版转载并重复发了很多次。
dont contribute to low quality threads
别给这种低质量帖子添砖加瓦。
I think it's all genetic. like some people have a propensity to see God. it's as effortlessly logical and self evident as it is for an atheist to reject the idea of a creator.
我觉得这都是基因决定的。就像有些人天生就有看到上帝的倾向。这就像无神论者拒绝造物主的概念一样，毫不费力、合乎逻辑且显而易见。
this explanation was sufficient to me up until I started to analyze this concept itself. why would some people be inclined to, without doing any research on their own at all, see and feel the creator while others aren't?
这个解释在我开始分析这个概念本身之前对我是足够的。为什么有些人即使完全不自己做研究，也会倾向于看见并感受到造物主，而另一些人却不会？
I really think God exists at this point I just can't crack the code on how not to be a subject to his sense of humor.
我现在真的相信上帝存在，我只是搞不懂怎么破译代码，才能不成为他幽默感的受害者。
>>62510699
I'm not regularly exposed to christian music, i just know that when i'm at an event where it's playing, it's usually that cookie cutter ultra light rock variety. I know what you're getting at with the ghettoification though, as most pop music is integrating this style unfortunately. I can only imagine how awful this must be incorporated into christian music.
我不常接触基督教音乐，我只知道当有活动播放这种音乐时，通常都是那种千篇一律的超轻摇滚。我明白你在说 ghettoification（贫民窟化），因为不幸的是，大多数流行音乐都在融合这种风格。我都能想象这掺进基督教音乐里得有多糟心。
>>62504493
6 There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men: 2 A man to whom God has given riches and wealth and honor, so that he lacks nothing for himself of all he desires; yet God does not give him power to eat of it, but a foreigner consumes it. This is vanity, and it is an evil affliction.
6 我见过日光之下所行的一种恶，这恶在世人中很普遍：2 有人蒙神赐他资财、财富和尊荣，以致他内心缺少什么，都不得满足；然而神却不容他享受，反让外人来吃用。这是虚空，也是莫大的灾祸。
3 If a man begets a hundred children and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but his soul is not satisfied with goodness, or indeed he has no burial, I say that a stillborn child is better than he— 4 for it comes in vanity and departs in darkness, and its name is covered with darkness. 5 Though it has not seen the sun or known anything, this has more rest than that man, 6 even if he lives a thousand years twice—but has not seen goodness. Do not all go to one place?
3 人若生一百个儿女，活许多岁数，以至于他的年日众多，心里却不得满足享福，或说不得善终，甚至有埋葬，我就说，那不到月龄就流产的，强如这人。 4 因为这人来是虚空，去是黑暗，并且他的名字被黑暗遮蔽， 5 他未曾见日头，也未曾认识什么，这胎儿比那人反倒得安息。 6 虽然那人若活千年、再活千年，却享不了福，众人岂不都往同一处去吗？
>>62510771
The reason they are afraid of appealing to sensuality in any way is because they are afraid of promulgating anything that leads to a brother's downfall, is my interpretation. Misguided sexual shame of course is a big factor in all this due to numerous sexual scandals that took place among many of the earlier Christian contemporary bands many of whom were pretty good musicians, easily equal talents to what is found in the pop music scene
他们之所以在某种程度上害怕诉诸感官享乐，是因为他们担心会传播导致弟兄跌倒的事物，这是我的解读。当然，误导性的性羞耻感也是其中的一个大因素，这归因于许多早期基督教当代乐队中发生的大量性丑闻，其中不少乐队的乐技相当不错，才华完全能与流行音乐界的顶尖人物相媲美。
Here's one
这儿有一个
>>62510804
Think of it this way, God created us to live with Him forever, but not with the idea that we would continue to exist as ungrateful and insufferable assholes such as I have frequently presented myself throughout my life. It's all about learning gratitude and appreciation and this can involve experiences that result in ego-death, which is something we fight against just as vigorously as our own physical death
这么想吧，上帝创造我们是与他永远同住的，但可不是让我们继续作为不知感恩、令人难以忍受的混蛋那样存在，正如我经常在我的一生中展现出的那样。这一切都关乎学习感恩和欣赏，这其中可能涉及导致自我消解（ego-death）的经历，而这正是我们要与自身肉体死亡同样奋力抗争的东西。
not-so stealth /x/ thread
不太隐秘的 /x/ 版块帖子
christian music was probably the nail in the coffin for me as far as believing in god. sitting in the back of my born again evangelical aunt's minivan listening to that shit. I thought only retards would think this is good music. its like eating a shit sandwich while grinning and saying "mmmmm delicious!"
就我个人而言，基督音乐大概是我信仰上帝之路上最后的那根稻草。坐在重生派 evangelical 小姨的面包车后座，听着那堆垃圾。我当时就想，只有傻子才会觉得这是好音乐。这就像一边吃屎三明治一边咧嘴笑说“嗯~真美味！”一样。
>>62504493
You're an idiot with the mind of a stupid teenager.
你是个白痴，脑子跟愚蠢的青少年似的。
>>62511664
Catholic. There is no such thing as other Christians only rotting leaves that fell from the one tree.
天主教徒。除了我们，没有别的基督徒，只有从同一棵树上掉下来的腐烂落叶。
>>62511664
I don’t know, Ive heard some really good Christian music that moves my soul. Maybe you just have a hardened heart. I will say that there’s really only one Christian artist that I really love, but his catalog is pretty large. He’s Catholic for what it’s worth and so am I.
我不知道，我听过一些很棒的基督教音乐，能触动我的灵魂。也许你只是心硬了。我说我只真正深爱一位基督教艺术家，但他的作品集相当庞大。他信奉天主教，我也是，仅供参考。
>>62504493
>If wagies didn't believe they'll get a sooper speshul epic prize for all their misery after they die, would they still wage?
>如果工资奴工们不相信死后苦难会换来超级特别的史诗级奖赏，他们还会继续当牛做马吗？
That's basically Karl Marx opinion on religion: "Religion is the opium of the people."
这基本上就是马克思对宗教的看法：“宗教是人民的鸦片。”
>>62509655
And that is the subject of "on the jewish question", by Karl Marx.
而《论犹太人问题》正是讨论这个主题的。
>>62511712
I think I would have benefitted from being raised Catholic, but all the ceremony surrounding the masses makes it seem like a club I can never fully be a part of. That said, you might be interested to hear that when I incorporated some Catholic practices into my routine, kneeling to pray and praying daily for the souls of departed family I was unexpectedly healed of a small genetic disfigurement.
我觉得如果我从小被当作天主教徒抚养长大，或许会更有裨益，但弥撒周围那套繁文缛节让我觉得这就像是个我永远无法完全融入的俱乐部。话虽如此，你可能会感兴趣，当我把一些天主教习俗融入日常生活，比如跪下祈祷、为逝去的家人每日祷告时，我意外地治愈了一种轻微的先天畸形。
>>62504493
I like how you lump elite/NEET ruling class together in the same group.
我喜欢你把精英/NEET统治阶级归为一类的做法。
>>62504493
Heaven is not a reward for suffering. It’s a reward for belief in Jesus Christ. Your poverty, on the other hand, is a reward for your indolence
天堂不是对苦难的奖赏，而是对信仰耶稣基督的奖赏。至于你的贫困，那是对你懒惰的奖赏。
>>62517097
Its the welfare class coping about living in poverty and upset they dont get paid money to do something easy and/or enjoyable. Probably hobbyless hylics who are slaves to easy dopamine. They dont live past 40 usually.
也就是靠福利过活的阶层在抱怨生活在贫困中，还因为不能因为做轻松和/或愉快的事情就领钱而感到不满。大概是那些毫无爱好的唯物主义者，他们是廉价多巴胺的奴隶。他们通常活不过40岁。
>>62509797
>proselytize against significant material accumulation
>宣扬反对积累大量物质财富
It's not the material accumulation itself that is bad.
问题不在于物质积累本身。
It is the means needed to be employed for such a feat.
而在于为了实现这种积累所需采取的手段。
Such as dishonesty, theft, false witness, inbreeding, slavery, blackmail, assault, murder.
比如不诚实、盗窃、作假证、近亲通婚、奴隶制、敲诈、殴打、谋杀。
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